New Zealand Railways, the Southerner and the Silver Star.

Photo courtesy of Bendoy

I think the symbol shown is for NZR ie New Zealand Rail prior to being sold . it was used on Silver Star crockery but as in the photo below. I see the backstamp on the example has 79 included , the year that the Silver Star service was discontiunued and is Super Vitrified. My two Silver Star plates are BS Crown Lynn Vitrified no number. May nave been for refreshment room or cafeteria use. Hope this helps.

Thanks Jonno that does help and I will edit the title to New Zealand Railways.

I just got 2 of these nice rectangle plates what does the back stamp look like on your jonno is it silver? or black?
thanks Toni

Ok just worked it out silver star was a train  I got it!  Here are mine

Are this cup & jug part of the Silverstar set? they are the same very dark burgundy..and it is such an unusual colour?  

I have some notes at home about this and will check them out later.

The notes are from Stuart Park's Intro to Commercial Ceramics Exhibition Catalogue from 1978.

"Northener and Southener trains originally had maroon cups with cleverly designed handles for ease of stacking. These are now white as maroon involved an extra production process."

Now we just need someone to determine the difference between the Silver Star and the Northener and Southener ...... Wikipedia is helpful, but I'm too tired for it to make real sense

Toni in reply to your question about backstamps.

Can I suggest that you go  to an earlier post n this subject which will answer the question about back stamps used on these rectangular plates.

Go to search and enter :-  CL NZR Silver Star d623 for the gallery

I sent this info yesterday but somehow it failed to load.

Sorry to have taken so long reply to your query.

"Did they have a First Class on the Silver Star I wonder?
That's all I can think of just now for the different colour on the back."

My recollection was that the Silver Star WAS the first class. The rest of us took the Northerner. 

From Jim's collection... 
I presume 1st class got these lovely stylish cups. 

That design is the one used on Silver Star and no, Silver Star. was only one class no 1st and 2nd. Double & Single sleeper accomodation and Bar and dining car.

Interesting that a very similar shaped cup was supplied to Air New Zealand also.

go to

http://newzealandpottery.forumotion.net/t2559-different-crown-lynn-cup-handles#7608

First saw that bowl cup shape used for Dominion Breweries Hotels but with a different handle shape.

Another from Jim's...NZR in slver grey saucer..its such a little thing the cups must be small.. I wonder if they are squarish?  

Hi All, I found a photo on NZ archive site of the Silver star buffet car with this pattern and shape http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/photo/railway-food-buffet-car

Very interesting , the photo of the plate in Blue is quite new to me. All the CL NZR pieces I have seen have been decorated in a Magenta /Wine colour.

I have gone to the web address that you posted but am unable to find the Blue decorated pieces you have posted on that site and from the photo of the buffet car it is hard to determine what colour the pieces on the counter are.

However I notice that it is not the Silver Star buffet but the Southern version so maybe they had a different colour for the South. The edge pattern is exactly the same.

https://i.servimg.com/u/f39/18/90/74/72/img_2011.jpg

I have one of the magenta edged dessert bowls I am about to list on trademe. Have hung on to it too long. need to start culling. Could never work out much more than it was NZ rail from the 70s.

Thanks for sharing that photo thatsmytiki.  
A snippet from a Stuart Part Exhibition Catalogue from 1978 says that the
"Northener and Southener trains originally had maroon cups with cleverly designed handles for ease of stacking, now white as maroon involved an extra production process."

With the help of the Crown Lynn drawings I think these shapes have been revealed.
Hopefully tomorrow I will get a chance to show and tell

All of these drawings are together and have NZR New Train Crockery Details on them.  They include all of the measurements and the shape name.  However the Side Plate and the Dinner Plate are the same shape and size, but the side plate is shallower than the Dinner Plate.  The drawings have two dates 5.8.70 and 20.8.70.  There are no shape numbers, but with the measurements and dates it was easy to find the shape numbers in the records.

8616 - 7 1/2" x 5 1/4" Squarish Side Plate - Photo courtesy of Jonno





8615 - 7 1/2" x 5 1/4" Squarish Dinner Dish - Photo courtesy of bopmum





8617 - 4 1/2" x 4 1/2" Squarish Sweet Dish - Photo courtesy of thatsmytike





8618 - 4 1/4" x 4 1/4" Squarish Saucer - Photo courtesy of Kat & Co from Jim's collection.  No idea why this one is in blue, but it's the shape that is important atm.





The 3010 Cup 2 5/8" x 3 2/16" - Photo courtesy of Kat & Co from Jim's collection

What a great find not just drawings but all the measurements as well, so now I can measure the similar cup that I have ( when I find it grrrr) and be cpnfident that it is or not the same shape.

BTW the Blue design was used on the Southerner Trains.

Jonno wrote:
BTW the Blue design was used on the Southerner Trains.

Brilliant thanks Jonno. This is the one and only blue patterned piece that I've ever seen and thanks to you now I know where it fits into the big picture

To be quite clear Ev the reason I suggested that the Blue decoration was for the Southerner rather than the Silver Star is based on my memories of Silver Star which I used  regularly for a period prior to its demise.

This post gave me the clue :-

photo of silver star buffet car
Post  thatsmytiki on Mon 23 Jun - 9:22
Hi All, I found a photo on NZ archive site of the Silver star buffet car with this pattern and shape http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/photo/railway-food-buffet-car

Once I saw the photo it was clear that this was not the Silver Star because of the layout of the Buffet Car

Those drawing are superb Ev - I think its great to have all the sizes as it confirms everything we have learnt so far.

Bumps for Jonno..
Jims cup


The cup I have is the reverse colour and looks to be like the ones in the B&W photo you added as a link.

There was a square saucer on TM the other day, I was going to bid but changed my mind.

I'm having trouble getting my head around the Northerner, the Southerner and the Silver Star.
These appear to be three different trains, the Northerner went from Auckland to Wellington and back.
The Southerner was the equivalent in the South Island.
The Silver Star replaced the Limited Express 626 in 1971 and ran overnight from Auckland to Wellington.
Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points.

Ev the only fault I can find is your  spelling error Southerner is the right spelling,but otherwise you are spot on.

The Northerner & The Southerner used carriages that had been upgraded in NZ from existing rolling stock, whereas the Silver Star was a brand new set of carriages built overseas and clad in shining silver metal. The cabins were either single or double and ensuite and the buffet car had tables to sit at an eat. There was an attendant in each carriage and breakfast was served in your cabin in time to be ready to alight in my case Palmerston North to catch the connecting railcar to Masterton which I did for several weeks whilst working in Carterton.

It was a very comfortable and reliable service and sadly stopped when it was decided to alter the layout of the carriages to accommodate  more passengers. The union asked for special conditions to handle the asbestos insulation the management refused and the service closed. I understand that the trainset now operates as a luxury service from either Singapore or Kuala Lumpur to Bangkok.