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431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Wed 12 Nov - 16:50

I saw this yesterday when I was looking at uno's teapot.

We would need to know where her information came from to know its value as there is still the matter of double up on the numbers 431 and 432 with the lamp bases to address.

I think that even though the double up has given rise to some debate on the matter it is generally agreed that the Santa and side-handled Toby are Crown Lynn. This is reflected in the gallery.

I think maybe records were destroyed by fire in the mid fifties and numbers reissued where items were discontinued. Maybe the moulds had disappeared by that time.

I have spoken at Antiques Club to people about Santas, people who received them for Christmas when they were kids, and they appear to date from the 1940s.
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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

Post  Ev on Thu 18 Dec - 8:56

Just need to compare Heather's Santa with Kat's shell vase.  
My word I do find Santa creepy and I think it's because of his beady eyes!

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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

Post  Kat & Co. on Thu 18 Dec - 9:39

I looked everywhere yesterday for the thread for the white coloured CL dog jug that sold on TM recently, it had the same shape mouth pourer as Santa..
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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

Post  Ev on Thu 18 Dec - 11:43

Is Santa's mouth a pourer like the Bonzo jug?
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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

Post  Kat & Co. on Thu 18 Dec - 16:39

Yes maybe the same modeller made them? cat
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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Thu 18 Dec - 20:40

Santa's mouth is not an opening, just black glaze.
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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

Post  mike67 on Fri 19 Dec - 20:33

These colours have always reminded me of the Santa mug. I had a couple of of them many years ago but was persuaded to part with them. Silly!!!
I do wonder what these are though.

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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

Post  Ev on Wed 18 Mar - 15:43

Hellooooooo,
I wasn't aware that the Santa mug doesn't have a handle .......?

Not many mugs without a handle are there, unless they are a Japanese teabowl.
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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Wed 18 Mar - 16:25



Hat is handle.
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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

Post  Ev on Wed 18 Mar - 17:07

Wot????? sort of handle is a hat ?? :O2laugh:
I've never seen the likes lolzzz
Titian did some odd handles on Toby jugs didn't they?
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Santa as greenware at Crown Lynn

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Thu 21 May - 12:31

I know it is already settled that Santa is Crown Lynn but I felt this story would add something.

I popped into the regular Age Concern garage sale today to show Maata (Martha) my photos from the Portage Museum opening which she was unable to attend with me as she had family commitments. Maata is reluctant to give personal details (including surname) but from our conversations I have deduced that she is likely in her mid to late 70s. Maata worked at CL up until 1955 at the latest, and the age 17 has been mentioned but whether that refers to when she started or finished at CL I do not know.

Anyway ...
When I had finished showing the photos I inadvertently flicked to a picture of a Santa Toby, to which I heard the surprising response: "Did you do that?"
Maata was referring not to making the Santa but to adding the colours to it;
She had only ever seen them as greenware!

Maata had to ask when CL made the colourglaze in the Portage display as it was after her time. She was not familiar with, or had no memory of the Shufflebothams or the Steenstra (who I think was after her time at CL), but did tell me that she has a coronation Loving Cup, which had belonged to her mother. She has a swan, but the black one was also new to her.

I think Maata worked mostly in fettling but she has also mentioned an X-Ray machine (or something similar) used for testing bisque wares so may have moved about a bit.
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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

Post  Ev on Thu 21 May - 12:37

A great story Jeremy !!
Nothing is ever set in stone, as there is always room for more info.
Would love to find some info on the Santa Toby in the Portage Museum archives!
Haven't found anything older than about 1959/1960 so far.
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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

Post  Ev on Thu 23 Aug - 10:28

For some reason I cannot find a photo of the Santa Toby numbers.
Can someone please add one as I think it matches the font on the 463 plate that oakpot posted.
The 432 Toby Jug uses the same font as the 463 plate and the plate doesn't match up with the Crown Lynn records, which show the 463 to be a lidded Cheese Keep.
So we may be onto something here. What exactly I can't be sure Laughing

432 Toby Jug from mumof1



463 Plate from oakpot
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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

Post  oakpot on Thu 23 Aug - 16:46

The Santa mug numbers 431 are larger than the plate 463.
It seems that the base of the cheese keep has been sold separately as a decorated plate.


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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Thu 23 Aug - 17:01

Ev,
Oakpot's plate looks to me to be the same as the cheese plate, just without the cover.

I have asked if it is e/w or vit, as vit seems unlikely for a Royal Oak piece.

Here are a couple more 432s.


4 and 3 look good.

My Santa is unreadable, today at least.
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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

Post  Ev on Thu 23 Aug - 17:31

Thanks guys as the 3's match and I am relieved to see that.
Perhaps Crown Lynn made the plates in both earthenware and vitrified ware?
Unouwanit posted two of these trays recently on Facebook and they had a persons name and 1953 on them. Yes they will be Crown Lynn.
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Re: 431 Santa mug and 432 toby jug INQUEST.

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