Researching the NEW ZEALAND mark that is impressed into the base clay on Crown Lynn

This is what I'm talking about - NEW ZEALAND like this on the base of this Insulator cup -



Today I found a Carnaby cup and a Time Out sugar bowl with this mark too and now I want to find out the time frame that this stamp was used.
The two patterns I mentioned above are both from 1967 ...... and I considered this stamp to be much older !  Just shows how much I know
This stamp is mentioned in Val Monk's new book page 68, but no time frame is given.
Can you look out for this stamp, so that we can get a good idea when it was used please?
I will go through my research stash too when I get time .........

Ev, is it an impressed New Zealand mark, i.e. pressed into the clay, that we are looking for. I ask, as the Made in New Zealand is usually raised.

I have found these with a quick look, not all my Demi or Tulip cups have NZ indented but these ones do...same with the blue speckled bowl its the only piece of this colour I have with that mark... the Apollo sugar & Pine Cup might help more with dates.  

Gravy Jug 1033 impressed mark is a bit hard to read.

My dorothy thorpe, milk jug and sugar bowl also have the impressed mark.

mumof1 wrote:"Ev, is it an impressed New Zealand mark, i.e. pressed into the clay, that we are looking for. I ask, as the Made in New Zealand is usually raised."

Yes it is impressed and has a distinctive font in caps.  I know it's on a lot of the Colour Glaze ware.  I will check out Pine, Dorothy Thorpe and Apollo dates.

Pine - The first Pine cup was made in 1965
Apollo sugar was first made in 1965
Dorothy Thorpe shape 25 cups were first made in 1965

These are from the Crown Lynn Shapes records and they all have 4 digits which confirm their numbers.
Unfortunately the records never say when they stopped making these shapes.
I do know that Apollo was still being made in 1988.

These too, the blue speckled one must be 50's.??

Hacienda egg cup.

Kat & Co. wrote:These too, the blue speckled one must be 50's.??

That cup shape tricked me into thinking it was very old until I found out that they used it for the new hospital cup in 1978 Kat ......
Actually it looks like the blue speckled vitrified ware is from the 1970's and I'm trying to ascertain this atm.

There is some interesting info at
http://newzealandpottery.forumotion.net/t3154-db-ltd-cup-and-plate
scroll down the thread a bit where I have posted about the cup that started the thread
and the fact that there is no reference to GIBPAT and that they were bought by CL about 1968. So !! the point being that the DB cup has New Zealand indented not raised.
Also I see that my Carousel eggcups are indented also and Val Monk says they were a 1965 release.

Hope this helps

Thanks Jonno, as yes it does help.
Hacienda was first made in 1967 according to Val Monk page 65.
Betty was first made in c.1968 along with Arthur & Martha, Captain Sharples and Purple Myrtle.
So to date we have confirmed the dates that this stamp was used are from 1965 to 1968.
More research required though

My bathroom tumbler has only New Zealand impressed http://newzealandpottery.forumotion.net/t3283-a-crown-lynn-bathroom-tumbler-or?highlight=tumbler

It occurs to me Ev that the production of the moulds/dies used to produce the cup may have something to do with whether the 'New Zealand' is pressed into the cup body or standing proud.

I don't know enough about how they would have made the moulds but generally speaking letters such as  those used for marking original moulds would be punches and would be indented into the body, the reverse I have never seen as a a punch set and if used would need to  depress the whole of the base except the letters. In the metal industry this process is called 'hobbing' but requires extreme pressures.

I wonder if the indented effect you are researching is a reversal created during the process of making the production moulds from the original masters which were marked with punch stamps ? and then a copy is produced from the originsl . This is what happens in the manufacture of gramophone record dies for instance. Just a thought.

This is the only new thing I can find to add at the moment, although I do have a 6013 jug too.

Thanks sunshine, as that pattern was first made in 1978 for the Public Hospitals.
So that extends the time frame dramatically!

my little Goldline jug has New Zealand

my ascot jug


and also my DB egg cups

Hope these may help too

I also discovered today that my little jug 715-01 has only New Zealand as well. Not sure if that helps any.

I'm enjoying the detective work in this topic. I have a little to add.

I noted elsewhere that the mark on my Reflections can is impressed.
http://newzealandpottery.forumotion.net/t4223-some-unusual-reflections-pieces-from-unouwanit#14637

So far, Ev, you/we have established a time range from 1965 to as late as 1978.

Val (Monk 2, p92) puts the "Supervitrified" backstamp as commencing in 1970.
Only the green stamp is shown in the book; the saucer and plate accompanying the can are stamped "Supervitrified" in black, which I suppose may be even later.

I don't think Val has seen this little set yet: she may have something to add.
Next visit maybe.

If the can and saucer belong together, and no one has questioned that YET, then we may be looking at another impressed mark from 1970 or later.

Maybe we are going about this search the wrong way.

What we want to find really is the start date for this mark and I believe that will come when we find the piece with the earliest commencement of production.

However, some pieces such as tulip cups may bear impressed or raised marks, so we need to look at OTHER differences that may be found between between items with impressed and raised marks bearing the same shape number.

I have done this with 781 tulips in the following post.

http://newzealandpottery.forumotion.net/t3067p15-which-cups-go-with-what-saucers#16741

The next step is to find the earliest commencement date of items bearing only the raised mark (ie items that had never been produced with the impressed mark) as I believe the raised mark superseded the impressed mark.

In the cups and saucers topic I suggested that when the raised mark replaced the impressed marks on the tulips they were also beefed up a bit and handles lowered, and in the corresponding saucers the foot ring was increased in diameter.

Such changes MAY also correspond with changes to either plant or clay recipe.

Tulips are such a common item they are a good indication of changes in production processes. For what it's worth the same variations I found with the Fleurette tulips also apply to my Narvik. I predicted in the cup and saucer topic that the same changes would apply to other patterns and it appears to be true for Narvik.

When these commencement dates are identified we will also have a good guide for reducing the age range of individual pieces.

See mumof1's demis here:

http://newzealandpottery.forumotion.net/t4077-3-different-demitasse-cups-including-galaxy-and-riviera#13884

Does a "2" on super vitrified means 1962? Or is it 1972?
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Edited 15/2 to add Anne's photo.
photo by mumof1

Bingo!
One number is from the 1960's and that one has NEW ZEALAND impressed in 1962. That is the earliest number that I think I've seen too.

That's what I thought, Ev, but was unsure about the super vit stamp as Val only gives us 1970s for that.

I would be surprised (but of course may yet be so) if the impressed mark goes back much earlier than that, as I have that single 781 Fleurette cup that has only a "5" impressed and neither New Zealand mark, which I have no doubt precedes the others. Fleurette is variously described as first being used in late 50s or early 60s.

For all impressed "New Zealand" shapes with different patterns we should focus only on the earliest pattern dates as being of significance. Moulds, jigs, whatever will only be replaced when they reach the end of their useful life. With tulips, a shape produced in large quantities, I think that would be the point the raised "Made In New Zealand" took over.