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Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

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Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Thu 21 Nov - 11:30

Previously titled:
Adding Interest to the Stacks: Now looking for 8041 soup bowl in Pioneer or Sundowner.
Adding Interest to the Stacks: RNZAF Soup Bowls

These are my kitchen stacks of 5620s and "soup bowls".

I have more Pioneer 5620s in storage.
I keep the fancy ones at the bottom usually.

12/1/15 update

A couple more, plus two different-sized 1645s at bottom. The brown 5620 is not Pioneer-coloured, much darker and has a different backstamp
left is well bigger than 5620s
right is slightly smaller than 5620s

And back to the original topic...
I have two new additions to the bowls.
These are slightly beefier than the Pioneer so it's tidier with them at the bottom.
(More Pioneer in storage again.)

The Air New Zealand and the "Navy". I can't decypher the "Navy" monogram.

These two were sold as "Navy". As seen, no base markings.
They have a slightly heavier base ring than either Pioneer or Air New Zealand.

The only other bowl like this that I have see was sold as "Red Tango",
although there was no sign of Tango in the design, just red. I could have,
and probably should have bought it but it had a nasty mark inside.

All items are vitrified.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Following Ev's comment below I checked the insignia and it is indeed identical to the RNZAF one.
Thank you Ev. So yes, they are Air Force, but I'll leave the text above alone.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Sat 16 Jul - 10:45; edited 8 times in total (Reason for editing : post script, change title for searches)
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Re: Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

Post  Ev on Thu 21 Nov - 11:53

It's a bit hard to see that insignia, but it looks like the Royal New Zealand Air Force.
See this topic - http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t2149-cl-plate-royal-new-zealand-air-force

Gosh I should be able to find numbers for those vitrified shapes when I get time, especially the Air NZ one !!!!!!!!
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soup bowls in THC, plain DC8 teal, Blue Tango

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Thu 28 Nov - 14:18

A swap with Jim gives me this.



---------
17/8/15

Blue Tango 1966 for Gibsons and Paterson.

see also http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t927p30-tango-blue-by-crown-lynn#26405

The addition of the Blue Tango bowl now gives me six different bowls, not counting variations on the Pioneer/Redwood glaze and their various backstamps.


Back left is either a DC8 Tahora bowl without the brown glaze (Tahora pattern and backstamp) or simply a DC8-teal-coloured bowl. It is the same size as the DC8 and is the only other bowl here with an impressed New Zealand mark.
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Re: Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Tue 13 Oct - 15:46

Is the RNZAF bowl actually an 8641?



See the box in this auction:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Pottery-glass/Porcelain-pottery/Crown-Lynn/Bowls-dishes/auction-964396328.htm

Trade Me auction 964396328

(The auction bowls are indeed Airforce rather than Army. The letters of the monogram are the same as mine but there is a clearer gap between the letters in the centre and the surrounding laurel wreath in the auction bowls.)

I'm good with the Air NZ as 5610 as the date works with it being the first 56xx.
The plain teal in the previous post is, I think, just an Air NZ without Tahora. Both have "New Zealand" impressed mark.

The brown ("Pioneer") Cook and Serve ones would have followed the blue Gibsons and Paterson which is dated 1966. No impressed mark. Slightly lighter weight than the teal ones but blue and brown are essentially the same shape. Remodelled 5610?

The THC and RNZAF are beefier and have a sturdier footring. Minor variations between the two but essentially the same. These then are likely 8641.

I thought we already had two numbers for these but have only found one item in the gallery.


Last edited by mumof1 on Sun 5 Jun - 21:51; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Trade Me link expired)
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Re: Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

Post  Ev on Tue 13 Oct - 18:50

Exceptional work Jeremy as this number was overlooked some how when I added descriptions to the Gallery.
8641 - Small Eared Puree Bowl was 5610 ]no date but produced after 1981]
Now to decide if we should use your Airforce bowl for the 8641?
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Re: Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Tue 13 Oct - 19:04

Should work.

My suggestions for three distinct shapes are above.

If you are happy with them then go ahead.

I edited my previous before I went out and forgot to send.

I said:

The brown bowl was inadvertently posted at 8-0-41 in the gallery.

And that the tm photos show a heavier footring than the CookServe ones,
but consistent with my RNZAF.
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Re: Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

Post  Ev on Tue 13 Oct - 19:19

I will have to come back to this Jeremy, as I need to put my chef's hat on right now. So we have numbers for 4 of these bowls don't we and at least one is Earthenware ... right?
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Re: Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Tue 13 Oct - 19:39

I am not aware of any in earthenware.

I only know of the two numbers: 5610, 8641.

On closer inspection of the tm listing I see the one in the box top left has the monogram like mine where the wreath and letters bleed together.
Also, you get a view of the bases showing the heavier rounded footring, quite unlike the Cook & Serve but a match for my RNZAF.

So I'm good on Air NZ for 5610.
I'm good on RNZAF for 8641.

The date on the Tango-Blue/Blue-Tango Gibsons & Paterson (1966) tells me it is to early for 8641. The Cook & Serve are a shape match for the Gibsons etc thus (unless there are any other numbers) I sticking with them being a remodelled 5610.

The 5610 Gibsons etc would have been THC North Island Blue Tango.
The 8641 THC would be its replacement when THC changed their pattern from Tango to brown line decoration.
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Re: Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

Post  Ev on Wed 14 Oct - 8:14

I found your Air Force 8641 bowl in my files from last year, so I've added it to the Gallery. Not sure why it wasn't added, but I can only think that it was because of the unknown timeframe. Also found
5610 Small Eared Puree Bowl [Now Ram Press] [from around 1964]
8041 as 5610 31.8.78 [This is Earthenware]
8641 Small Eared Puree Bowl was 5610 [Made after 1981]

So now I think the 8041 is incorrect as it is a Cook & Serve and not Earthenware.
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Re: Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Wed 14 Oct - 9:31

The 8041 has me stumped Ev.

What I have is either marked Cook & Serve or it is airline/hotel/cafeteria ware so will all be vit. I thought the 8041 was a mistake that was intended to be 8641 but if you have taken it from CL papers then I can't question it, but I do agree that the Cook & Serve bowl is not appropriate for that number.
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Re: Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

Post  Ev on Wed 14 Oct - 19:17

Jeremy I found the 8041 Soup Bowl in a 1981 Price List for Pioneer.
Lets hope someone has one that matches their Pioneer pieces.
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Re: Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Wed 14 Oct - 22:17

Interesting.

I'll have to check through my Pioneer-looking bowls (could be 10+ of them) to see if any do not have stamps with Cook & Serve or whatever Airline may have used them. Then, if I find one, I'll have check to see if it is earthenware rather than vitrified. The unglazed bases are getting a bit murky because they are in regular use.

Another thought. Does the description for the 8041 refer to them having lugs?
We could be dealing with a different shape entirely.

Maybe the description as "Pioneer" pattern just led to an assumption that it was the lugged bowls.
.
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Re: Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

Post  Ev on Thu 15 Oct - 6:33

The description for the 8041 is "as 5610" so they are definitely the same bowl. I have a few photos of large displays of Pioneer and will check them out sometime. I have since found another pattern that has the 8041 Soup Bowl and that is Sundowner, from the same 1981 Price List and again I have pics of displays of this also somewhere.
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Re: Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Thu 15 Oct - 14:13

Ta.

I have seen the Sundowner ones for sale on tm.
Yet to scrub my "Pioneer" bases. Might be easier to tap them.

I'm just taking a breather after having the gang around.
(Val, Kat, Jim, and Brooke.)

16/10/15 backstamps
All my bowls with the Pioneer-coloured glaze have Cook & Serve backstamps.
The earlier of two different stamps is consistent with 1960s Cook & Serve as seen on coffee can saucers (shape #792) and is stamped on an unglazed base. The later, of which I have just one example has a glazed base and updated stamp with altered flames, fonts, and "Crown Lynn" omitted.
A third variation on the flame can be seen on 1970s microwaveable wares:
http://www.newzealandpottery.net/gallery/More-Crown-Lynn-Galleries/Crown-Lynn-Backstamps-and-Stickers/1970-s-crown-lynn-microwave-cookware-pic_2413.htm
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Re: Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Sat 16 Jul - 10:44

8041 earthenware soup bowl in Sundowner.
I understand the current gallery photo is a placeholder, actually a 5610:
http://www.newzealandpottery.net/gallery/Crown-Lynn-Shapes-Catalogue-with-Four-Digits/Ram-Press-Earthenware-and-Vitrified-8010-8899/8041-as-5610-pic_6922.htm

Finally found one of these at Sallies Henderson on Thursday and had to shell out a massive $3. (Compensated by Ambrico/CL 10 and OC Stephens vases/pots at $2 each!)

Basically same size as the vitrified ones but a whole lot thicker in body as can be seen in the comparative photo.
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Re: Adding Interest to the Stacks: 8041 soup bowl in Sundowner for GALLERY.

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