Latest topics
» Royal Oak wall plaque - who made this?
Today at 17:07 by oakpot

» Corrimal d387
Today at 7:32 by Ev

» Peter Lowrie Pottery marks for the gallery
Yesterday at 16:33 by Maryr

» Hi from Driving Creek
Yesterday at 10:34 by Ev

» Peter Hamann
Tue 17 Oct - 18:20 by R L Pike

» Taranto Crown Lynn modello Tableware
Tue 17 Oct - 6:04 by Ev

» HW Inscribed Shape 35(edit) Salisbury Vase
Mon 16 Oct - 17:25 by oakpot

» Modello Milano 20 pc NIB
Mon 16 Oct - 17:12 by Michael Smythe

» third party handpainted CL plate
Sun 15 Oct - 16:01 by oakpot


"Insulator cup": what is this?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

"Insulator cup": what is this?

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Fri 7 Mar - 15:11

original title:
Vitrified: Carlton, 700, 3638, and insulator cups[NB This was new territory for me when I started this topic so please take my initial comments with a grain of salt. Obviously the 700 cup I got so excited about is not the first Ambrico cup shape.]

Jim got one of these the other day so I just had to have one.

I understand this cup is Crown Lynn's first non-industrial shape.
Mine is 1966 and the saucer is 1981 (and the saucer is navy) so obviously they are not a matched pair, but they fit.

I saw no 4-digit number for the cup.
I presume the cup is a 700 and the saucer is 4635.

I gather this is the same shape as the NZR cup and saucer.
Dad had an NZR cup and saucer but my brother has his railway things.
I'll see if I can get that from him one day. Til then this will suffice.




Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Sun 18 Jun - 11:36; edited 7 times in total
avatar
Jeremy Ashford

Number of posts : 2987
Location : Whangarei, New Zealand
Registration date : 2010-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: "Insulator cup": what is this?

Post  Ev on Fri 7 Mar - 17:38

I'm processing the vitrified cups to post the descriptions into the Gallery and there is one that says 3611 - Insulator as 700,
but wait there is another that says 3638 - was 700 Cup,
so I would guess it is the latter?
Also I have yet to do the vitrified flatware, so hang on until I do, to work out which saucer it is .....
avatar
Ev
Admin

Number of posts : 13053
Location : Sth Auckland New Zealand
Interests: : NZ Studio Pottery and NZ Pottery History
Registration date : 2008-08-28

http://www.newzealandpottery.net

Back to top Go down

Re: "Insulator cup": what is this?

Post  Cat-a-lat on Fri 7 Mar - 17:43

Heheheh, so did they just bung a handle on an insulator and call it a cup?  Wink  Razz
avatar
Cat-a-lat

Number of posts : 1001
Location : Palmerston North
Registration date : 2012-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: "Insulator cup": what is this?

Post  Ev on Fri 7 Mar - 17:44

Heheheeee the opposite I reckon .... they didn't put a handle on the cup and called it an insulator :O2laugh:
avatar
Ev
Admin

Number of posts : 13053
Location : Sth Auckland New Zealand
Interests: : NZ Studio Pottery and NZ Pottery History
Registration date : 2008-08-28

http://www.newzealandpottery.net

Back to top Go down

Re: "Insulator cup": what is this?

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Fri 7 Mar - 18:10

Not so easy I think, guys.

They are same height and footring size but the insulator cup is 3-4mm wider across the top.

Insulator cup has no stamp, but an impressed NEW ZEALAND which probably makes it the four digit 3611, especially as there is no three digit number for it!

3638 for the cup then, thanks Ev. I guess a 1966 production date makes it the four digit shape rather than the three digit 700. This one has no impressed mark, just the stamp as can be seen above.

------------------------
picture added 8/2/14

left 3638
right 3611

Dad, a "traniac", believed (incorrectly) that the insulator cup was an early railway mug. He was wrong, but close. I'm glad he thought to acquire one though.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Sat 8 Mar - 10:55; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : Additions)
avatar
Jeremy Ashford

Number of posts : 2987
Location : Whangarei, New Zealand
Registration date : 2010-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: "Insulator cup": what is this?

Post  Maryr on Fri 7 Mar - 19:38

The NZ Ceramics mag of July 1964 (crown Lynn publication) tells us that from 1964 the porcelain department made a slightly larger version of the railway cup, with no handle, which was used as a protective cap for electrical fittings on power poles. I have two. One has an impressed New Zealand on the base, the other has electrical specifications. We had some of these on the power pole outside our hose when we lived in the old suburb of Beach Haven in Auckland. And that was only four years ago. There is a pic on pg 130 of my new book.
avatar
Maryr

Number of posts : 1559
Location : Whangarei
Registration date : 2011-11-17

Back to top Go down

Big Vitrified Cup 3638 (!) and Saucer 4635 (?)

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Sat 8 Mar - 20:08

Can the 3638 go in the gallery?


------
Later
I see from the descriptions that the 700 cup , in earthenware, became the 3058.
That's another one to look out for.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Sat 8 Mar - 23:07; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : More)
avatar
Jeremy Ashford

Number of posts : 2987
Location : Whangarei, New Zealand
Registration date : 2010-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: "Insulator cup": what is this?

Post  Ev on Sun 9 Mar - 9:00

Of course!!
Keep them coming Jeremy Very Happy
avatar
Ev
Admin

Number of posts : 13053
Location : Sth Auckland New Zealand
Interests: : NZ Studio Pottery and NZ Pottery History
Registration date : 2008-08-28

http://www.newzealandpottery.net

Back to top Go down

Re: "Insulator cup": what is this?

Post  Ev on Sun 9 Mar - 13:46

Auckland Museum have some Railway mugs on Pinterest ....

http://www.pinterest.com/aucklandmuseum/mugs/

Some different sizes ~_~
avatar
Ev
Admin

Number of posts : 13053
Location : Sth Auckland New Zealand
Interests: : NZ Studio Pottery and NZ Pottery History
Registration date : 2008-08-28

http://www.newzealandpottery.net

Back to top Go down

My insulator cap

Post  Maryr on Mon 10 Mar - 9:24

I see that there is discussion about insulator caps elsewhere on this site as well.. http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t465-a-handless-cup-or-maybe-a-power-pole-insulator-yes-it-s-an-insulator-cup?highlight=insulator
Anyway. Here is a pic of mine - it has electrical mumbo-jumbo on the base.
height 7.5, w 8.


avatar
Maryr

Number of posts : 1559
Location : Whangarei
Registration date : 2011-11-17

Back to top Go down

Re: "Insulator cup": what is this?

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Tue 11 Mar - 12:46

There is a lot more work to be done here and I'm not up to it right now.

Kat took me to Jim's place to see his new teapot and I took my 700/3638 along.
He has a ton of these in various sizes. I took photos of each (including bases) but one pic will have to suffice for now.

Four vitrified cups in distinctly different sizes and,
on right (5), massive cup in earthenware (maybe stoneware)

All but the earthenware have Crown Lynn marks.

The middle cup (3)  is my one but Jim also has this size.

Revelations. The two insulator cups with different markings are also different sizes.
The smaller one (with backstamp) is only slightly bigger than the middle cup (3):
the larger one (impressed NEW ZEALAND) is about the size of the larger vitrified (4).

At this point I'm thinking 3 is actually a 700 and 4 is the 3638. That may change.

I know this shape is famous as the NZR cup shape. I'm curious to know about sizes on the NZRs. Trademe sellers of these generally don't bother giving measurements.

Thank you too Jim for giving me one of the slightly larger (4) ones.

-----
later
I've added photos of Jim's cups. The "middle-sized" one is mine taken from pics at the start of the topic. I have added some measurements now!

"Carlton" cup 65mm H x 82 OD at top

small "700" estimated 70-72mm H x 82 OD
[30/5/15 measured at 74-75mm H x 80 OD]
[18/8/15 I measured it differently yesterday
[74 x 78 x 50 footring]


medium "700" 77mm H x 84 OD

medium to large width comparison

large "700" 77mm H x 88 OD

large earthenware cup or mug huge!
(19/8/15: 85mm H x 95 OD top x 57 foot ring at its widest)


1, 2, 3
4, 5, 6
small insulator cup compared to my cup (1-4) and the larger cup (5,6)

One more cup. See:
http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t6635-jim-s-small-vitrified-coffee-cup-1948-55


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Wed 19 Aug - 16:28; edited 3 times in total
avatar
Jeremy Ashford

Number of posts : 2987
Location : Whangarei, New Zealand
Registration date : 2010-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: "Insulator cup": what is this?

Post  Ev on Tue 11 Mar - 18:39

Brilliant Jeremy, as I thought that there were a few and here you are already showing this lot! The biggest and oldest may not even have a shape number, as that was still at the experimental stage. The very first of these didn't have handles even ....
Not sure what to do about the Railway cups that we have in the Gallery, but will leave it for now until we can clarify things.
avatar
Ev
Admin

Number of posts : 13053
Location : Sth Auckland New Zealand
Interests: : NZ Studio Pottery and NZ Pottery History
Registration date : 2008-08-28

http://www.newzealandpottery.net

Back to top Go down

Yet another "700"

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Fri 14 Mar - 13:26

This is effectively the same size as the medium, above.

Older than "medium", heavier, different handle (right), better foot ring (r),
thicker body, more rounded at lip

There appears to be a number stamp but I can't read it.

---------
11/7/14
Link to some great early (E/W) duos:
http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t3458-made-in-nz-backstamp#11250 farao 
---------
17/9/14
POSSIBLE 700s

The montage starts with an Ambrico earthenware "700" shape (photo by gloworm), then, I'm still thinking my NZR Restrooms 10 cup may be Ambrico or CL vitrified. I haven't received the Solarc cup yet but anticipate a 48-55 vitrified stamp. It has the same handle as a Carlton cup. I think there were E/W ones with this handle too. The bottom row has three variations on the standard cup and handle: 48-55, then pre- and post-mid-60s.

---------
30/5/15
I finally got around to comparing the Solarc cup (Carlton cup handle) with the "small 700" and found that they are effectively the same body shape with a different handle. A minor footring modification reduced the height by 1mm or so but the diameters are the same. From the base stamps seen so far (48-55 vs 55-65) it looks as though the Solarc shape replaced the "small 700" shape.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Sat 30 May - 13:51; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Jeremy Ashford

Number of posts : 2987
Location : Whangarei, New Zealand
Registration date : 2010-09-11

Back to top Go down

insulator cup

Post  Kat & Co. on Mon 29 Sep - 14:19

Maryr wrote:I see that there is discussion about insulator caps elsewhere on this site as well.. http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t465-a-handless-cup-or-maybe-a-power-pole-insulator-yes-it-s-an-insulator-cup?highlight=insulator
Anyway. Here is a pic of mine - it has electrical mumbo-jumbo on the base.
height 7.5, w 8.


Another with more electrical mumbo jumbo....Aust. Design? cat
I wonder if its any different to the one above that says NZ design..
Ps ..backstamps aren't in gallery.
avatar
Kat & Co.

Number of posts : 2110
Location : Whangarei
Registration date : 2012-12-03

Back to top Go down

Re: "Insulator cup": what is this?

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Fri 7 Aug - 15:48

Three different insulator cup backstamps from Jim's collection.
All cups are the same size, early 1960s rather than slightly larger late 1960s.

Sorry about picture quality: I was a bit rushed.
avatar
Jeremy Ashford

Number of posts : 2987
Location : Whangarei, New Zealand
Registration date : 2010-09-11

Back to top Go down

"Insulator cup": what is this?

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Sun 18 Jun - 11:39

I couldn't resist this trademe buy.


This is the smaller insulator cup shape with impressed New Zealand mark, dating from 1962-1966, and thus it is the same size as a 1950s to 1960s railway cup.

decorated insulator cup and 55-62 NZR cup



Whyever has someone decorated this insulator cup in this way?
Is it a drinking vessel? A plant pot?
avatar
Jeremy Ashford

Number of posts : 2987
Location : Whangarei, New Zealand
Registration date : 2010-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: "Insulator cup": what is this?

Post  Ev on Sun 18 Jun - 14:07

These have always fascinated me and I've seen many listed over the years, but haven't been prepared to pay the price.
They get referred to as Kauri milling men and other similar types from days gone by.  I've never found any reference to these in the records, but feel that there will be a pattern name.
avatar
Ev
Admin

Number of posts : 13053
Location : Sth Auckland New Zealand
Interests: : NZ Studio Pottery and NZ Pottery History
Registration date : 2008-08-28

http://www.newzealandpottery.net

Back to top Go down

Re: "Insulator cup": what is this?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum