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not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

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not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Sun 24 Aug - 16:47

I hadn't planned to stay in Auckland after the Cleverley opening but I saw there was an antiques fair on and then knew I'd be in town for the Cleverley slideshow too.

The fair had some interesting pieces but not at prices I was willing to pay.

As I was in the neighbourhood I popped in to see Brian Ronson at Antiques of Epsom in Manukau Road. Brian and my late Dad were buddies from the antique and auction scene.

I particularly wanted to check out his New Zealand pottery cabinet, which includes CL, Titian, OC Stephens and the work of many more collectable potters.

Brian was led to believe this mug was Wharetana, and on discussing it later with him it emerged that Jim Drummond had told him it was the second range of Wharetana, that is Ngakura Ware: but it isn't.

It is a four digit castware mug, designed and made at the Titian factory in 1971.
I asked Mark Cleverley about it too and he immediately told me it would have been made by those people at Titian.

1110 Souvenir Maori Mug - 2.2.71
12cm high


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Tue 2 Sep - 10:15; edited 2 times in total
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Ev on Sun 24 Aug - 17:15

Wow knock me over with a feather why don't you Very Happy Very Happy

Hemara has one of these in his china cabinet and said that he modelled it while he was with Titian and called it an experimental piece.

Manos had a listing for one and he thought it was Wharetana

I have a photo of one from one of the leading auction houses and they said it was Wharetana and it had a ridiculous price on it.

At last now you find one with a number on it and it matches the description bounce
It isn't modelled by the same people who did the Wharetana range, but by someone else.  Thank you so much Jeremy cheers

Edits to add these old links and I'd forgotten that we saw a drawing of it in the Crown Lynn records recently!
http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t1766-hemara-hemara-experimental-mug-from-the-collection-of-manos?highlight=experimental

http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t665-experimental-titian-hemara-design-mug?highlight=experimental
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Sun 24 Aug - 20:06

Ev, I was going to edit out the "designed ... in 1971" above in light of further information from your post but instead will acknowledge here the likelihood that Hemara Hemara designed it earlier than the 1971 Crown Lynn production date.

I had seen the other photo before but did not make the connection. Note that the Crown Lynn example has a brown interior and the other is white inside.

Just a bit more ...
This will join a growing group of Titian designs produced by Crown Lynn at a later stage. It is curious how some Titian designs were adopted by Crown Lynn yet others emerge even later as Orzel. I continue to marvel at the huge number of castware mugs produced by Crown Lynn at the a Titian factory. Slowly the origins of the designs are beginning to emerge but unless someone holds the information I fear the majority will remain anonymous. The greater similarities between the various Luke Adams mug shapes on the other hand points to the likelihood of a single designer working there. I presume the sketches in the gallery are drawings of what was produced rather than the actual designs for the mugs.
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Ev on Mon 1 Sep - 17:17

nickgane thinks this mug is made by Parker Pottery ....?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/pottery-glass/porcelain-pottery/crown-lynn/other/auction-774898593.htm
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Mon 1 Sep - 18:49

Many stories. Interesting note about the "P".

It could be this idea springs from the Lincoln Vineyards bottle Wharetana copy.

The Crown Lynn number date is 1971: if it was RE-produced a second time (first "production" being Hemara's original for Titian) it would need to date from well after that.

What is the timing for Parker's Lincoln bottle?

Oh, I made my bid before I saw your comment (but not before you made it), Ev.

Edits much later to say I see now that the Lincoln Vineyards bottle was not Wharetana but an original design that somehow made its way into the Wharetana display at Auckland Museum.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Tue 11 Nov - 9:35; edited 1 time in total
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Ev on Mon 1 Sep - 18:57

Yes I thought of the Lincoln Wines bottle as a connection. Norm Parker said they were made about 20 years ago when I spoke to him in 2009, but he was very vague. Lincoln Wines said it was the 1980's/90's if I remember correctly. I'm not sure if the mug was modelled by the Parker Lincoln Wines bottle modeller .... ? The drawings for the mug were in the Crown Lynn modellers drawer ..... getting near the bottom of the drawer. Didn't see any drawing for the Lincoln Wine bottle.
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Mon 1 Sep - 19:06

Crown Lynn closed in 1989 which coincides perfectly with Norm Parker's dating (2009-20).

Timewise then, there is a possibility that Parker could have reproduced it, but there would have to be a why?

I think Val has mentioned a "P" mark on Parker items.

Even if ... There is still a place for it in the CL gallery as it is a Crown Lynn shape (after Titian) and a Crown Lynn number.

Edits much later to correct: Val's reference to a "P" mark was in relation to Beach, but curiously one of the contenders for the a Beach P mark is Norm Parker, the others from memory being Paul Beach and Paul Hemara.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Tue 11 Nov - 9:39; edited 1 time in total
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Ev on Mon 1 Sep - 20:04

Well now the plot thickens as the item that Nick pointed me to has a Parker Pottery sticker on it !!!

http://www.ooga-mooga.com/cgi-bin/all/pictures.cgi?mode=view&pic_id=37406&mug_id=3835&ind_mug_id=

Hemara was involved with Parker Pottery ....
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Mon 1 Sep - 20:32

That settles it.

Nick's one has Crown Lynn base. So it is Crown Lynn.

Linked one, Parker, has "New Zealand" on base.

Glazes differ.

I'd like to see the base of Hemara's own one now.

I've used up my full 500 words on Nick's listing!
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Tue 2 Sep - 1:00

That was fun and educational.

I made a montage of my photos and the ones of the Parker from the Tiki site.

While they are both the same basic design there are many differences, both additions and deletions. The Parker is a remodelling of the Titian/Crown-Lynn mug. It is definitely softer overall, and has a lighter handle. It is also missing the "ear".

I'm pretty sure the CL is the same as the original Hemara/Titian but as the older photo lacks detail I cannot be absolutely sure.

Nick was very smart or lucky with his choice of google keywords.
Assuming the CLs were souvenirs and would be more likely found overseas I made an eBay search and soon realised how popular tiki mugs (as in Hawaiian tiki mugs) were in the US and packed it in rather than wading through thousands of listings.

Here are the montages for you to compare yourself, Ev, but as they contain images from off the forum I am expecting you to delete them at some time, or advise me to do so.


The honey glaze tiki mug photos belong to this site:
http://www.ooga-mooga.com/cgi-bin/all/pictures.cgi?mode=view&pic_id=37406&mug_id=3835&ind_mug_id=

See also ...

http://www.ooga-mooga.com/cgi-bin/all/mug.cgi?mode=view&mug_id=1955&ind_mug_id=14783

... which belongs to the same collector, Paipo.

The thing that distinguishes the NZ Maori tiki from the Hawaiian (generally but not exclusively) is the protruding tongue.

---------
Curiously the ooga mooga site has one other mug from Parker Pottery ...

http://www.ooga-mooga.com/cgi-bin/all/mug.cgi?mode=view&mug_id=3834

... and I have one (or one very similar) sitting on the dining room window cill.
I have had for it decades with no knowledge of what it is and I have totally forgotten where it came from. And I was going to get rid of it.

You wouldn't believe it!!!

I will photograph it when the sun comes up.
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Ev on Tue 2 Sep - 6:41

I spotted differences straight away between to the mugs and those differences would be enough to not infringe on copyrights I reckon. I am familiar with that site as I bought a Maori Waka made in Hawaii by Gecko and it was through that site thanks to Tony that I contacted Gecko. I now want to see which one Hemara has in his china cabinet. How interesting is the unfolding story of these mugs.
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tiki mug: Parker?

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Tue 2 Sep - 10:13

Here's my "other" tiki mug.
It is almost a match for Paipo's one on ooga mooga but the handle has been re-worked. Note it says "NZ" in the handle, which is totally incongruous with this Hawaiian tiki.

I looked at 3300 tiki mugs on ebay last night ...
(Will write later as I'm expecting Kat and Jim this morning.)
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Kat & Co. on Tue 2 Sep - 10:20

Yep put the jug on Jeremy! Laughing
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Hey! tiki

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Wed 3 Sep - 15:04

[I was planning to make a new topic on NZ tiki mugs, and may yet do so, but for now the gist of it goes here.]

The ceramic (also wood, glass, plastic etc) "Tiki Mug", generally retailing from Hawaii as a souvenir item or store promotion is a highly collectible item in the US, with second-hand prices starting at about USD10 and going into the hundreds, perhaps thousands for all I know. At time of writing there were about 3300 tiki mugs for sale on eBay alone.

From those 3300, about one in two hundred appears to be derived from a single original design or existing Hawaiian totem. Here is a sample of what I looked at:


As you can see the Parker Hawaiian tiki mug and my possible Parker (left below) are clearly derived from this same model. What is less obvious is that so too is the Titian/Crown-Lynn/Parker (Hemara) design (right below):


Far from being an original (from scratch) design the Titian/Crown-Lynn mug is a re-modelling of a Hawaiian mug, with the Parker re-modelling bringing it closer again to a Hawaiian original.

Notice the basic shape is the same, then have a look at a few details. The nose is of the same form and quite distinct from a typical NZ Maori carved nose, where the nostrils dominate in a single nose mass. Maori eyes sometimes also have the almond shape too but that shape is generally secondary to the round eye. The tongue is prominent in NZ Maori carving but less so in Hawaiian tiki faces where the teeth dominate. The addition of the tongue and facial tattoo to what is essentially a Hawaiian face gives the mug its New Zealand character but it is clearly a remodelled Hawaiian tiki mug.

There is also evidence in the surface of the mug that this shape is literally "a remodelled Hawaiian tiki mug". Note the heavy vertical mark above HIS left eye: this same deep groove appears as a split in the faux timber of all the tiki mugs in the montage above, also in the Parker Hawaiian tiki mug and my similar one.

---------
Saturday am.
New info and back peddling.

The figure represented is Kū or Kū-ka-ili-moku, the Hawaiian god of war.

The EFCCO mug linked above is typical of the Hawaiian tiki mugs with representations of Ku. Others were produce by Treasure Craft.

The EFCCO is 4 inches high by 3 inches across, give or take. These measurements equate not with the Parker Maori mug but with the Parker Hawaiian mug, beaing in mind 1 cm is added to the height, and to the top of the design on the Parker Hawaiian.

This of course means that the Maori mug, being much bigger is not a direct copy of the EFCCO. Nevertheless, remnants of a Ku mug design can be seen on the surface of the a Maori mug. Alternatively the grain marks of faux timber could be part of an original design which is also intended to look like a timber carving, rather than just a Maori design on a mug: the positioning of these marks match marks on the Ku mugs so I think there is more to the story than this option.

More work needed ...

Edits much later to say that now I have my own Ku mug I see it is actually the same size as the CL and the taller looking "Parker" mug is actually smaller!


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Tue 11 Nov - 9:48; edited 5 times in total
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Ev on Wed 3 Sep - 15:12

What can you tell us about the history of your Tiki mug Jeremy?
How long have you had it? Where did you get it?
Also, is there anything on the base?
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Wed 3 Sep - 15:27

I took the photos of the CL mug at Brian's Shop.

My Hawaiian-NZ-mug has been sitting around at our Grey Lynn house for as long as I can remember. We bought the house in the 1980s. I don't remember having the mug before then, but may not have had it all that time. I have vague memories of it coming from the Army Surplus in K Rd but they could be false memories. It is totally unmarked underneath but has a clearly formed unglazed footring with glazed base. The NZ marks on the handle appear front and back.

I believe a lot, if not most, of the Hawaiian mugs were made in Japan. As you can see from my montage of Hawaiian mugs they are generally a lowball shape. The Parker and mine are taller in proportion but narrower. In my ebay search I did not see any with this proportion so the Parker and mine are the only two I have identified. I think it unlikely mine is Japanese, as why would a Japanese pottery put NZ on what is clearly a Hawaiian tiki mug? Apart from the reworked handle (and no "New Zealand on the base) it looks a match for the Parker.

---------
Later ...
Ev, to answer your earlier wondering about Hemara's mug, I have no idea which version Hemara has. I'll have to leave that to someone who is in contact with him. Photos would be good.

The one posted on the forum (John's one) differs from both CL and Parker in glaze. The photo lacks detail but I'd like to think it the original from which the other two followed.

We do need to access and photograph it in greater detail.

Next question: which one was at auction?
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Ev on Sat 6 Sep - 8:38

I had time to visit Hemara yesterday after taking photos of all of the Crown Lynn drawings in the Modellers desk drawer. I asked him about the mug which he has in his china cabinet which is like this one, but has a brown glaze on it.
He said that he modelled and made it and it was the very first one made. It had no markings on the base. Hemara's connection to Parker Pottery is that he and his wife bought the business off Norm Parker in about 1990 and called it Hemara Pottery. I asked him if he knew of a Hawaiian Tiki mug made in the same style, but with lots of teeth and he didn't know anything about it.

Bruce Yallop told me that he thought that this mug came from Luke Adams ....?

There was a small hand drawing in the Crown Lynn modellers drawer [from an early time frame which I will figure out when I get time], but not a proper one to scale.
So we are still none the wiser really.
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Ev on Sun 7 Sep - 17:28

Here is the page with the Maori mug on it from the Crown Lynn Modellers Shape Guide book. It is not numbered, but the next number to follow is 1110 which says a lot. I have added the other shapes that we didn't have to the Four Digit Gallery e.g. the 1104 Spoon and the 1105/1106/1107 Canister drawings.

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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Sun 7 Sep - 19:22

1091 is cup for chunky coffee set. I thought I read somewhere that the set was Cleverley but he said the other guy by which I thought he meant Dave Jenkin.

Would this book have been Jenkin's or a figure further along the manufacturing process?

Then again: are they drawings of or drawings for the pieces shown.

And.
I love seeing those drawings in the gallery!
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Ev on Sun 7 Sep - 19:30

Crown Lynn had a Cadetship scheme, which was like an apprentice scheme. All cadets were issued with a Shapes book among other things and it looks like new shapes were added by hand. Many of the three digit shapes are in there and by the way the Shape 40 is 7 inches across. Our Galleries are much more intensive than the Shapes book.
It is fantastic to be able to add more shapes to the Galleries .... it's the best as far as I'm concerned and that is why I go out of my way to do research.
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I have an Efcco Ku tiki mug

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Fri 7 Nov - 14:36

Happy Birthday to me. You-all may have noticed my age (look right) has clicked up one notch. My nominal birthday present was the Wharetana mug (shown elsewhere) but today's buy is icing.

Wharetana mug: http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t1685-the-1029-ruru-and-weku-wharetana-mug#21784

The start price for an Efcco tiki mug including shipping from eBay or Etsy is about NZD53 so when one came up on tm recently I stopped bidding just after 40 and left it to someone else. Then my best buy overseas sold to someone else! This morning Nicole and I walked down town and I checked out Deborah's "Little Treasures" while the Doctor tried on clothes at "Red Ruby". Deborah told me she had new stock in but nothing for me, then I found this: brilliant condition Efcco "Ku" tiki mug for just $6. (It's a shop, not an op-shop!) No sticker unfortunately but I know an Efcco Ku mug when I see one.
Same shape as a money box is for sale on tm atm:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=799497102

Anyway, now that I have the real thing I can make more accurate comparisons between the Efcco mug, the CL 1110 and the Parker Ku mug (actually mine may not be Parker but it is effectively the shape).

The side by side pairs are shot together so size comparison is accurate.

The Ku (Hawaiian war god) shape is a pretty common one for tiki mugs and the design is generally attributed to the US outfit Treasure Craft, but the Efcco version is the one I believe forms the basis for design of the CL Souvenir Maori mug (originally designed by Hemara Hemara at Titian and later produced at Parker Pottery, perhaps also with a contribution from Hemara), and the smaller Parker Ku mug, which my other mug above (lower left) resembles.

Efcco is made in Japan for a San-Francisco-based import company and its wares include numerous SF souvenirs and the tiki mug.

Edits later to say that the Ku money box mentioned earlier is smaller than the Effco mug (as I have seen the two side by side in an eBay auction) but bigger (in scale) than the Parker Ku mug. I still believe it to be Efcco.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Tue 11 Nov - 10:02; edited 2 times in total
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

Post  Maryr on Fri 7 Nov - 14:51

Hey what a wonderful birthday 'present' - well done Jeremy.
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Re: not Wharetana, not Ngakura, Souvenir Maori Mug 1110 (and an intro to Parker tiki mugs)

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