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A puzzler from a Private Collector is a Keith Murray design copied by SylvaC

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A puzzler from a Private Collector is a Keith Murray design copied by SylvaC Empty A puzzler from a Private Collector is a Keith Murray design copied by SylvaC

Post  Ev on Fri 29 Jan - 20:26

This vase looks like it has been lathed, but also appears to have 3 numbers on the base and the early Crown Lynn stamp.  However there is no Handpotted stamp.  I see the three numbers in an arc which isn't usual for how the numbers are positioned.  Also the number that shows in the rubbing is 578 or is it 678?  578 is a Large Brick Vase that hasn't surfaced yet and 678 is a Medium Urn with Shell Ears that we do have in the Gallery.
The collector feels that this could have been slipcast and there are a couple of unseen pieces that have the description of Imitation Hand Thrown in the Slipcast ware and they are shapes 324 which is 7 inches high and 325 which is 8 inches high and these were made 22.3.67 but neither of these numbers match the number on the base of the pot.  Also the time frame for the smudged stamp on this vase would be around 1948 to 1955 according to Val Monk.

Do you have any thoughts?  I will get an opportunity to check this vase out for myself before too long.  Here are the intriguing photos.

A puzzler from a Private Collector is a Keith Murray design copied by SylvaC 20160110

A puzzler from a Private Collector is a Keith Murray design copied by SylvaC 20160111

A puzzler from a Private Collector is a Keith Murray design copied by SylvaC 20160112


Last edited by Ev on Sun 31 Jan - 6:50; edited 2 times in total
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Post  Jeremy Ashford on Sat 30 Jan - 11:26

Ev, if the 324 and 325 were FIRST made in 1967 then they would have had four digit numbers, so the shapes would appear to be older than that.

If that is the 48-55 stamp then it looks upside down relative to the number.
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Post  mumof1 on Sat 30 Jan - 12:52

That is interesting! It looks more like a Keith Murray vase https://www.pinterest.com/pin/337770040775317159/
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Post  Kat & Co. on Sat 30 Jan - 15:40

Vals Book(page 48)  says Ernie Shufflebotham was a protege of Keith Murrays bringing with him to Crown Lynn Keith Murray Designs.....I think perhaps this one of those initial vases he produced..& they did make a mould of this shape... CL borrowed lots of shapes from other factories why not Wedgewood too... cat
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Post  Ev on Sat 30 Jan - 19:40

mumof1 wrote:That is interesting! It looks more like a Keith Murray vase https://www.pinterest.com/pin/337770040775317159/

Now that is a perfect shape match isn't it !!!!
So did Keith Murray number his work?
I've only ever seen the KM Wedgewood mark .....
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Post  mumof1 on Sat 30 Jan - 19:49

I found several with different marks, Keith Murray, Wedgwood and Keith Murray for Wedgwood, and several different colours, but not 1 with a number. The base or foot on this vase is quite unlike Crown Lynn bases, even the ones similar to this shape, so the conclusion is going to be very interesting.
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Post  Ev on Sat 30 Jan - 19:56

I will add a link to this topic to the 20th Century site where the Keith Murray collectors hang out to see what they have to say. Some on there even collect Crown Lynn so it should create some interest hopefully.
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Post  mumof1 on Sat 30 Jan - 20:03

This is what I meant by the base or foot being different http://www.carters.com.au/index.cfm/index/199-crown-lynn-vases/ . Although not mentioned, I think this is the shape 14. Also, on the pencil rubbing above, is there a 1 before the number, making it a 1578 or 1678?
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Post  mumof1 on Sat 30 Jan - 20:14

Ok, I think I have solved it! See these 2 links which would indicate that it is a Sylvac vase
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171517132761
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/stylish-sylvac-art-deco-pottery-163948127
Neither is white, so the detail is not as clear, but the same base ring and number if you include the 1.
Actually, this one is probably clearer from the Sylvac site http://www.sylvac.net.au/gallery3/var/albums/Sylvac/Mould-Nos-1501---2000/1578.jpg?m=1334260879
I have removed this photo due to copyright.


Last edited by mumof1 on Thu 4 Feb - 20:39; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Ev on Sat 30 Jan - 20:21

Wow that is fantastic stuff sunshine!! I do like the description on the ebay listing that includes the number.
So what would that stamp read?
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Post  Ev on Sat 30 Jan - 20:23

Jeremy Ashford wrote:Ev, if the 324 and 325 were FIRST made in 1967 then they would have had four digit numbers, so the shapes would appear to be older than that.

Yes I agree with your thoughts Jeremy, but I checked the records and they are correct and have 3 digits in 1967.
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Post  mumof1 on Sat 30 Jan - 20:34

I think it simply says SylvaC, and looks longer because it is smudged, if you enlarge the photo, you can make out the large C at the end, as in this stamp http://www.sylvac.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pics/1196b.JPG even though it is upside down


Last edited by mumof1 on Sat 30 Jan - 20:38; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : edit stamp)
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Post  Ev on Sun 31 Jan - 6:49

The 20th Century Pottery site gave the same result as mumof1 that it is a Keith Murray design copied by SylvaC and has the number 1578. Spode also copied his designs, so that is good to know.
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