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I cannot find the number for this little sugar bowl, but with Jeremy's help it is a 3614 Individual sugar bowl in Greenstone EmptyToday at 13:33 by Ev

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I cannot find the number for this little sugar bowl, but with Jeremy's help it is a 3614 Individual sugar bowl in Greenstone

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Post  Ev on Thu 19 May - 9:01

http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=1088528007

I think it probably is the same as that little vitrified sugar that Jim has and it's loaded on the site somewhere, but I can't find it.  It has a lid in this photo that displays the new vitrified range in 1968 ...

I cannot find the number for this little sugar bowl, but with Jeremy's help it is a 3614 Individual sugar bowl in Greenstone Vitrif10


Last edited by Ev on Mon 14 Nov - 8:50; edited 2 times in total
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I cannot find the number for this little sugar bowl, but with Jeremy's help it is a 3614 Individual sugar bowl in Greenstone Empty Re: I cannot find the number for this little sugar bowl, but with Jeremy's help it is a 3614 Individual sugar bowl in Greenstone

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Thu 19 May - 15:21

Ev,
I'm pretty sure Jim's red individual sugar bowl is the same as the one in the photo here, middle row third from right. It would have been either Kat & Co. or I who photographed it. That little pot shape is approx the same size as the little Cook & Serve mustard pot and the lids are almost interchangeable (sizewise), but not quite. I often see odd pairings. The lid is the same style as the 1615-1620 teapots etc.

To me the one in the trademe ad looks like a different shape again. Thanks for asking for measurements. I'm curious about the "greenstone glaze" which looks similar (but not necessarily identical) to the Expo70 glaze.

The 1615-1620 range of pots must have had sugar and milk to match as they were used as hotelware. I think I said elsewhere that I assumed the wee milk jug or creamer, 1621 I think it is, was created for this individual tea set.

I keep bumping into a description and sketch for such a sugar pot in the gallery and will have a look for it now.

Here's the shape from the gallery. I haven't given it much thought yet.
3614 individual sugar basin 6.12.65
http://www.newzealandpottery.net/gallery/Crown-Lynn-Shapes-Catalogue-with-Four-Digits/Cups-Earthenware-Vitrified-and-Stoneware-3000-3899/3614-individual-sugar-basin-61265-pic_8885.htm

Kat & Co. wrote:This is a Mustard pot Jim has in his collection, minus lid, my neighbour has one same with a lid. I had been wondering where this fits in. Cool
I cannot find the number for this little sugar bowl, but with Jeremy's help it is a 3614 Individual sugar bowl in Greenstone Plum_m10
http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t1024-871-is-a-mustard#17645

In review I see that Jim's pot has a rim/lip/gallery to carry the lid so Jim's will be the one in the old photo. The 3614 has no rim and the height 1 7/8 inches approximates the 45 of the trademe sugar bowls. The drawing does not appear to be a perfect match to my eye but I'm nevertheless still thinking that the advertised sugars will be 3614s, at which point maybe someone should buy one or at least ask to use a photo. I had thoughts of buying the green one so I may just do that.

Okay, I did buy now on the "greenstone" bowl!


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Thu 19 May - 16:12; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Ev on Thu 19 May - 16:02

I see you have bid and won the greenstone one Jeremy Very Happy
They also have a blue one listed.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/pottery-glass/porcelain-pottery/crown-lynn/bowls-dishes/auction-1088528001.htm
I will await you response upon receipt of it ....
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Post  Jeremy Ashford on Thu 19 May - 16:10

I probably won't stretch to the second one, Ev (although I do have a blue teapot and milk jug to go with it).

I'm hoping the green colour does actually match the Expo wares as I have the individual teapot and a smallish jug in the "Aquamarine" Expo glaze.

Still need to find a shape number for Jim's sugar/mustard, and the lid.
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Post  Ev on Thu 19 May - 16:14

I may get the blue one .....
Yes we don't have a number sorted for that little lidded piece yet, though I know we have discussed it several times.
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Post  Ev on Thu 19 May - 16:29

Can't find measurements at the moment, but I think this is the same shape as Jim's little one ..... Shape 5614 - Lid 5611

Found a better image ...

Edits to remove pics now that this has been sorted.


Last edited by Ev on Mon 30 May - 15:30; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Jeremy Ashford on Fri 27 May - 13:06

Ev, totally with you on Jim's mustard pot.

And this sugar bowl will be the 3614.

I can confirm that it is indeed vitrified, and it is a glaze match for my 1619 water pot and 715-01 creamer.

Further to that, it is identified by a barely legible vit backstamp as "Greenstone", a stamp I have not seen before on any of my "greenstone ware" (Chateau Range). The distinction between Chateau and Greenstone MAY be that the tea service has white insides and the ovenware is green all over.
I cannot find the number for this little sugar bowl, but with Jeremy's help it is a 3614 Individual sugar bowl in Greenstone 361410
3614 Greenstone sugar bowl, vitrified, 47mm H x 76 OD at top

The 47mm height puts it a lot closer to the 1 7/8 from the sketch of the 3614 than the seller's measurement of 45mm.

I should have bought the blue as well to go with my Cook & Serve. This shape must be pretty rare.

Oh, I see you did buy it, Ev. More fool me.

.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Sun 29 May - 11:39; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Ev on Fri 27 May - 18:25

Wow how fantastic to have this sorted so quickly Jeremy!  Thank you so much as you are so switched on when it comes to shapes and numbers :bowdown:
Yes I have won the blue one and am looking forward to getting it in my hot little hands.  Though it doesn't have any base markings like your one does, I know that it's the same thanks to kirean1.

I've tutu'ed with your photo of the backstamp but not with much success.
I cannot find the number for this little sugar bowl, but with Jeremy's help it is a 3614 Individual sugar bowl in Greenstone Greens10

I will sort out Jim's mustard when I get time, do we have one with a lid?
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Post  Jeremy Ashford on Sat 28 May - 10:13

I can't remember seeing one with a lid on the forum but I do remember photographing one a couple years ago at Rainbows Relics so probably have it on file with the other 11,000 unnamed pics.

I have also done the tutu with the stamp and had no great luck. I will have to try different lighting situations. It will help to know what it actually says when I pull out one of my Cook Serves with the Gibpat stamp as I think they are similar. There may even be a date buried in there as it's vit. I will try UV on it at one of the local 2nd hand shops.

Reminds me we have at least one Gibpat stamp missing from gallery and at least one different Cook & Serve too.
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Post  Ev on Wed 8 Jun - 14:15

The blue one that I won was sent on the 27th May and it still hasn't arrived bah humbug! Evil or Very Mad
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Post  Jeremy Ashford on Wed 8 Jun - 15:16

That doesn't sound good Ev. They were a bit slow getting mine out but once sent I think it was only two days. I think in all my years on trademe and ebay there was maybe one or two items that didn't eventually arrive. Lots of breakage but at least they got here.

I have reviewed my backstamp and sadly I see that "greenstone" was wishful thinking. When something looks like that it is easy to wilfully misinterpret. I now believe that backstamp on my "greenstone" bowl is the same vitrified GibPat one that we have in the gallery:
http://www.newzealandpottery.net/gallery/More-Crown-Lynn-Galleries/Crown-Lynn-Backstamps-and-Stickers/crown-lynn-vitrified-pic_4418.htm
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Post  Ev on Mon 14 Nov - 8:53

I found a White 3614 Individual Sugar at the Matakana Markets yesterday during the Clayathon trip !!  There was a stall devoted to mainly Crown Lynn and I would have liked to have spent more time there.
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