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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  Jeremy Ashford Mon 9 Dec - 12:08

Now that I have a .1645. I can compare the glazes on three items,
in relation to Ev's discussion on the glaze called "Aquamarine".
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__________.1645.______________.1619.__________1057_____________
The three items shown have similar but slightly varying glazes.
The 1645 casserole is paler and the 1057 Cleverley mug less shiny.

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All have a bluish cast, which shows up best at edges and in shadowed areas.
On the 1645 it is best seen at the lip of the lid.
In the spout of the 1619, where the glaze runs out it looks indigo.
On the 1057 I have shown the join of the handle and body but the blue is more obvious at the base of the mug where the glaze has pooled.
Over the three items there is one constant:
the glaze looks bluest at the edges and where it is at its thickest.

I don't know how this glaze effect is produced, whether it is a clear blue over the top of the green or whether it is the composition of a single glaze that produces this effect.

I still have not been able to reproduce the vibrant blue of the seller's photo of the Cleverley set. I need to work on that.
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  Jeremy Ashford Sun 5 Jan - 16:46

I found some more Cleverley. (Not a complete set.)
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The more recent finds, shown on the left, are distinctly bluer than those I already had.
They show the effects of the Lucow glaze better.
I think the pot on the right is reflecting the one on the left, lessening the comparison.
The contrast in the mugs is greater.
The distinction between the Cleverley Lucow and the 1645 "Aquamarine" is greater again.

--------------------------------
update 21/1/14
FOR MORE ON LUCOW SEE:
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I have redirected comments on the Lucow glaze back to this topic.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Tue 21 Jan - 13:50; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Aquamarine IS Lucow!

Post  Jeremy Ashford Tue 21 Jan - 14:37

13 Feb 14 Edits to say, actually Aquamarine IS NOT Lucow
_______________________________________________
Ev wrote:Thanks for bringing all of the 1645 info back Jeremy as I found one of these lidded little casseroles recently and couldn't for the life of me find these old topics and today I can find three cheers
My one has a shiny bluey-green glaze on it that looks black when I photograph it.  Not at all like my Mark Cleverly coffee pot which was glazed at Luke Adams in the matt Lucow glaze.  An article in the Crown Lynn ceramics magazine called it Aquamarine, but I wouldn't describe it at all that way as it is too dark.

Following discussion elswhere on the Lucow glaze on the 1647 casserole
( [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ) and Ev's comments quoted above in discussion on the 1645s
( [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ), and general discussion elsewhere I am inclining to the position that:

THE LUCOW GLAZE AND "AQUAMARINE" ARE ONE AND THE SAME THING
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13 Feb 14 JA Edits to say NO they are not, as Ev shows later in this topic!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although, as noted early in this topic, the glaze on my own 1645 has a great deal of green and very little blue, Ev's quoted comment that her own 1645 "has a shiny bluey-green glaze" (albeit dissimilar from her own Lucow-glazed Cleverley) indicates to me hers actually is Lucow and so mine probably is too.

It seems so unlikely that Crown Lynn would produce 1647 casseroles in Lucow but use a different but similar glaze for the 1645s.

Descriptions of the Lucow glaze being "matt" can be misleading as the meaning of matt in relation to glazes is not the same as common usage.
What I have found in examining two Mark Cleverley coffee sets known to be Lucow is that the colour and texture varies according to the body it is applied to. And also varies from item to item, batch to batch, in the same shape.
In hollows, at openings, edges, and changes in shape or texture the glaze pools, looks blue and milky, and loses its shine, BUT where the surface beneath is flat and smooth the green colour dominates and the finish is shiny.

If one accepts that position then all the items above described variously as EITHER Lucow OR Aquamarine become BOTH Lucow AND Aquamarine.

Thus any reference to Aquamarine glaze in magazine articles advertisements etc may be considered as references to Lucow.

Of course I have no background in pottery or glazes so I may be totally wrong!

--------------------
3/2/14
MORE Lucow here:
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ALSO see ALL the Ngakura ware links:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
ESPECIALLY:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
WHERE I have added some notes.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Thu 13 Feb - 20:07; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : add link, correction)
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Aquamarine, Lucow, Chateau, Air New Zealand

Post  Jeremy Ashford Fri 7 Feb - 1:17

I got distracted and ended up looking at Expo ware and stuff.

With regard to differences between Ngakura ware and the Cleverley/Luke Adams coffee set on the one hand, and the 16xx vitrified items in the green/blue glaze on the other I noted this in Jonno's "1645 Possible Titian Trial pot" link ( [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] )

Ev wrote:Found an article about this new 'Chateau Range' in a December 1969 Ceramics mag. There were five Casseroles ranging from half a pint to four pints and a ramekin glazed in Aquamarine and made at the Titian factory. [In 1977 these were given a new four digit number starting with 5.]

I have offered above that the reason for different presentation of what is likely the same glaze (Lucow/Aquamarine) that the primary difference was the base beneath the glaze, which we know now is not just texture but the type of clay, with all the Auckland pieces being vitrified. The location of manufacture may have also been a factor: the more obviously Lucow wares being produced at Luke Adams in Christchurch and the dotted 16xx "Chateau Range" being produced at Titian in Auckland. The number of identified pieces has increased now to include 1619, 1644, 1645, 1646, 1647, 1650, and 1656. Three more casseroles and a ramekin could possibly increase that number by seven more.

Thank you to Kat, I now have all these (with the exception of the 1656) sitting on one shelf adjacent to the Cleverley/Luke Adams. (I guess I need to find some Ngakua now!) Not only is there the obvious distinction between the Christchurch and Auckland wares but a huge range in presentation of the glaze within the Auckland product. I note in particular that the largest item, the 1647 casserole, bears the greatest similarity to the Christchurch Lucow and the smallest, the 1644 "one lugged butter dish" the least.
____________________
As a rather long footnote I see there are many more Chateau Range pieces yet to collect. If the "ramekin" is other than the 1644, we may one day find a number in here for the original double-lugged (vs Cook & Serve) "soup bowl". It is worth noting that I have three double-lugged bowls in the same shape as the Cook & Serve "Pioneer" ones that are slightly beefier, namely the Air New Zealand, the RNZAF, and (courtesy of Jim) the THC. See them below.
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I suspect the original number for these items will be somewhere between the bathroom ware and the "Ionic" Casseroles ie from 1637 to 1643 or 1651 to 1668. (From Val, CL...Handbook, the Air New Zealand DC8 range was "developed in 1965".)
Whewww!
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  Ev Fri 7 Feb - 6:38

But Jeremy...... Lucow glaze is only ever mentioned in relation to Luke Adams, never Titian. Basalt the same. Aquamarine - I've seen the term only used for those casseroles made at Titian. I'm still not inclined to agree with you on this as I have Ngakura and Cleverley and the little casserole. To me the Ngakura and the Cleverley coffee pot are done in the same glaze and I have wondered if this glaze was already being used by Luke Adams before Crown Lynn took them over.
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  Ev Fri 7 Feb - 10:37

Haha now I've changed my mind AGAIN! The casseroles were made for Expo and I read recently that the Cleverley coffee set was designed for expo too. Plus taking into consideration that they were made within months of each other. Perhaps they tried to get things to match, but a matt glaze when fired to vitrified temps most probably turn out shiney.
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  Jeremy Ashford Fri 7 Feb - 11:00

(Just lost my reply to an accidental touch of a link! Try again)
I keep vacillating too. Great thoughts on firing temperature.
Here's some more to ponder. I wrote this before you latest reply so it replies to the one before.

In that case this 660 vase that's not Ngakura is also not the Ngakura glaze, unless it was made in Christchurch. The Crown Lynn made at Luke Adams list has only four digit items. This item is not vitrified like the Chateau Range so the effect is different.
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Another interesting item on trademe. A 2034 greenstone ("Leaf Spray") vase in what looks like Aquamarine and/or Lucow. I haven't noticed them in that before. Could just be the photo or my eyes.
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Curiously but likely not significant the three shape numbers after the greenstone range (2033-2037) are Luke Adams numbers (2038-40), described in the Adams link but not yet identified.

Ev, in the Luke Adams link you give a design number for Lucow "Deco No 147".
It would be interesting to know if the Chateau Range has a Deco number too.




---------------
later
660 = 2071?


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Fri 7 Feb - 15:56; edited 1 time in total
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  Ev Fri 7 Feb - 13:05

Some good thoughts there Jeremy and I will follow up what I can later on plus reread the expo bits that I have.
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  Ev Mon 10 Feb - 11:42

I was wrong about the Cleverly coffee set going to Expo, as it was entered in a Design '69 Exhibition in London and was accepted along with an ashtray. All of these are described as being in burnt brown finish. Egmont dinnerware was also accepted.
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Which ashtray?

Post  Jeremy Ashford Mon 10 Feb - 13:37

Very interesting, Ev.
The burnt brown is presumably Basalt. So the ashtray will be Luke Adams too.
I see four ashtrays, including Ngakura ware, produced at Luke Adams about the same time as the 1058 coffee set: 1053 (in 1968), and 1055, 1062, 1068 (all 1969). Despite some of the descriptions in the Adams list specifying Lucow we know a lot of Lucow items were also produced in Basalt. Any thoughts which one?


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Mon 10 Feb - 16:42; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  JanPots Mon 10 Feb - 13:44

Hi Jeremy - what is this list you have? Can I get a copy?
I have seen a few bits and pieces written, from the museum notes, but no idea what they look like.. just shape numbers and items.. like Mugs, bowls, dishes and so forth...
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  Jeremy Ashford Mon 10 Feb - 13:50

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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  JanPots Mon 10 Feb - 15:14

Thank you... I can't keep up with all the threads!!... your posts are quite indepth with details ... I might have to come back to those, when I have more time to digest your in your findings... LOL  Razz Razz 
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  Ev Mon 10 Feb - 16:25

The ashtray looks like the 1053 and I would agree that they would have used both glazes on many of those shapes.
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  leish Mon 10 Feb - 22:54

Quoted from Jeremy...

Another interesting item on trademe. A 2034 greenstone ("Leaf Spray") vase in what looks like Aquamarine and/or Lucow. I haven't noticed them in that before. Could just be the photo or my eyes.
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I have one of these - would you like some close up photos or anything, to compare the glaze etc? It is a deep green with the odd spot of blue showing through. Lovely.

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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  Ev Thu 13 Feb - 19:37

Jeremy I found this entry in the Deco Advices while I was checking dates for meljay.

Export Expo 70 Ovenware Deco No 172 this is from 1969/70

Lucow glaze Deco number is 147, so it must be a different glaze for sure as every glaze has it's own Deco number.
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  Jeremy Ashford Thu 13 Feb - 19:43

Thanks Ev. It's all in the numbers!
I'm going to go stick my head in the 1647.

--------
Later
The 69/70 date could be useful for dating other items in Deco No 172 such as the 660 and 2034 vases on trademe whose dates of introduction in other glazes was much earlier. I'm guessing that it would have run its course quite quickly.
So far I have only seen it (photos aside) on the vitrified wares, so I'm looking forward one day to seeing it on earthenware too.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Fri 14 Feb - 0:20; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Notes)
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  Ev Fri 14 Feb - 6:36

Don't forget the 715 jugs Jeremy -

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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty and a salt shaker too

Post  Jeremy Ashford Fri 14 Feb - 10:31

Ev, the photo below also shows what appears to be a salt shaker, in front of the pepper grinder. The streaky glaze is similar to my 1619, so I presume it is another Chateau ("Aquamarine" 172) piece. Any ideas what number that is?

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google did not give me the picture of the Osaka empty table setting with the 1645 in it that appears in Michael Smythe's 2011 "New Zealand by Design". I'll look again later.

------------------
Update 15/2/14
I just got Smythe out of the library again.
Photo 3 on page 199 shows the Expo table setting with cup and saucer (shape twenty-5?), 1644, 1645, what is likely a 1648 (later 5621?), and I think behind the glass is a salt shaker, all in Aquamarine.
Photo 1 on page 200 has the 1644 and 1645 again.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Sat 15 Feb - 12:49; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Update.)
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  Ev Sun 16 Feb - 10:33

Found another entry for Expo 70 in the Ram Press Earthenware records -

8012 - Oblong Service Plate for Expo 70 - first made 28.10.69
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty And this 2034?

Post  Jeremy Ashford Fri 21 Feb - 13:36

It looks as though the glaze on this all-over-green .2034. Greenstone vase is neither Lucow (Deco No 147, left) nor Aquamarine (Deco No 172, right). It was really tricky to photograph these three together, with the light constantly changing so I'm posting pics with both light and dark backgrounds.
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Sometimes the shadows in the Greenstone look blue but the edges and thickened areas look golden.

This makes me wonder whether the 660 vase that was sold as "Ngakura" was even Aquamarine, as it certainly would not have been Lucow.
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  Ev Fri 21 Feb - 15:54

Let me be clear..... Ngakura is a souvenir range, not a glaze! We both know that the glaze used on the fabulous souvenir range was Lucow. I never thought that the greenstone range used the Lucow glaze.
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Aquamarine, Lucow and one other Empty Re: Aquamarine, Lucow and one other

Post  Jeremy Ashford Fri 21 Feb - 16:56

Not an issue. I know what Ngakura is. History. Souvenir ware, Luke Adams, Lucow or Basalt glaze.

The seller said the 660 was Ngakura based on the glaze but chances are it isn't even the same glaze, Lucow, as the 660 shape comes out of Auckland and there is no history of Crown Lynn using Lucow in Auckland. My next guess is Aquamarine, but now, seeing the glaze on the 2043 appears not to be Aquamarine, the 660 may not even have been Aquamarine. Up on its second auction the 660 sold for $47. I have no idea whether the buyer believed what they read in the listing or not. I certainly didn't (but wouldn't have minded an opportunity to examine it).

I put the Lucow in the photos above for comparison only, to indicate that not only do we have Lucow and Aquamarine as similar but separate patterns, we now also have what appears to be a third pattern in similar basic dark green colouring.
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