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Air NZ plates: are these for real?

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Air NZ plates: are these for real? Empty Air NZ plates: are these for real?

Post  Jeremy Ashford Fri 19 Feb - 2:22

Air New Zealand auction

Did anyone else have cause to wonder about the pieces in this auction:
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I have heard stories of railway cups being faked but not Air New Zealand wares.

The seller said that they are not the repro 75th anniversary (Bob Steiner) Air New Zealand ware because they have Crown Lynn backstamps, but to me the backstamps themselves are problematic.

Here are my concerns:
1. there are 2 different plate shapes
2. Air NZ transfers and Crown Lynn vit transfers both appear
3. Poor quality Air NZ backstamp
4. plate 6 is messy
5. the colour of the plates unclear

The only Air New Zealand piece I have is a lugged soup bowl so I am unable to make useful comparisons.

The difference in plate shapes (centre bottom in photo of bases is earlier than the others) may not be important.

The big problem for me is that these plates have both vitrified transfers and Air New Zealand transfers, and their placement is very random. It looks to me like the vit transfers have gone on in random positions and the Air NZ ones have been fitted around them. Does anyone else have examples with both transfers?

In addition to the superposition of backstamps the example of the Air NZ mark in the photo is of very poor quality and possibly a bit dark, certainly not up to the standard of TonyK's one in the gallery.

The messiness of (all but particularly of) plate 6 (in the photo of the bases) suggests that at the least it would be a second, however these were commissioned pieces, for first class passengers, so it seems unlikely that seconds would be sold. That said, I note that we have seen other examples with incomplete transfers and other faults.

I cannot tell from the photo what shade of teal is here. I have tried comparing with pictures of standard vit teal and Air NZ teal but can reach no conclusions. If these are the wrong teal colour then it would be easy to say that the have been faked.

Also, I see absolutely no signs of wear on any of these and they are very shiny, suggesting that either they have never been used, or they have gone back in a kiln to have the transfers set and the glaze has refinished itself. Note also the dimpled finish.

To create a fake of the Tahora transfers would be a big ask but if someone had a supply of them not such a problem. I know there are transfers for the Air NZ Whisky bottles (colonial buildings) around as I have seen complete sheets of them. Also, there were new transfers made for the Steiner copies.
Jeremy Ashford
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Post  Ev Fri 19 Feb - 7:28

All of the plates have the year of manufacture on them and I would say they were all made by Crown Lynn.
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Post  Jeremy Ashford Fri 19 Feb - 22:18

I wouldn't question that the plates were made by CL, just whether the Tahora and Air NZ transfers were applied at CL.
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Post  Ev Fri 19 Feb - 23:05

I would say the decals were applied by Crown Lynn.
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Post  Ev Sat 20 Feb - 18:58

Jeremy Ashford wrote:Air New Zealand auction

I have heard stories of railway cups being faked but not Air New Zealand wares.

I haven't heard that the railway cups were copied so would like more info please.
I have heard that the Ginger Jars were copied and they were the ones that put the Crown Lynn stamp on them :O2laugh:
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Post  Maryr Sat 20 Feb - 21:43

Re the Air NZ plates on Trade Me, I had a look at Bob Steiners site and could see a copy of a cup and saucer but no plates. The glaze looked different too. More translucent, though that could just be the light.
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Post  Jeremy Ashford Sat 20 Feb - 23:09

Ev,
I can't remember the source of these rumours, and I did think them far-fetched at the time, but seeing the prices the NZR cups sell for now I can see that it would be worthwhile.
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Post  Ev Sat 20 Feb - 23:39

Studio Ceramics have been making an NZR cup and saucer for at least 8 years ...
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but it's obviously not Crown Lynn.
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Post  Jeremy Ashford Sat 20 Feb - 23:51

Yes I am familiar with those and they may indeed be what my forgotten informant was referring to but my memory tells me that there was an accusation of fraudulence involved.

If not for that elusive memory it would never have occurred to me that someone would go to the bother of faking.

Val's point taken re Steiner edition not including those plates.
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Post  Dale Ritter Sun 21 Feb - 22:11

The Green backstamp is the Generic underglaze rubber stamp applied to the Bisque plate before glazing.

Normally special production like ANZ would not have this backstamp and the ANZ transfer on the back would be applied to the fired glazed plate at the same time as the design on the front.

Only reason I recall for examples like this was when they were short of plates to fill an order and would sneak in a few to make up the quantities.

As far as reproductions, if you don't have left over sheets you would need to produce a silkscreen transfer with the correct ceramic colour and know the firing temperature, time etc.

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Post  mumof1 Wed 24 Feb - 0:14

A Steiner plate has been listed on listing 1039595418
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Post  Maryr Fri 26 Feb - 19:50

Interesting re Steiner making plates as well, thanks for that. This example is backstamped to differentiate it from Crown Lynn.
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Post  Jeremy Ashford Fri 26 Feb - 20:33

"Small plate" so I assume B&B.
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