871 is a mustard plus the 5616 New Mustard and 5611 Lid

Knobs.

Back row: Vision, round; Green Bamboo, square; Blue Tango, round.
Every replacement pattern mustard I have seen has a square knob lid.
The round knob lids are otherwise the same shape as the square knob lids.

They are totally different from the lids of the small sugar bowl 3614,
even though they have the same diameter.

Front row: ramekin lid, round knob, casserole has same; coffee pot lid, square knob.
Regardless of pattern I have only ever seen round knobs on ramekins and square knobs on coffee pots.

The sugar bowl photo I posted yesterday is the same as Kat and Arna's ones above.
The whole bowl and lid are covered in a brown glaze which as Ev suggests is like the brown of "Basalt" glaze but there is NO black at all.

http://newzealandpottery.forumotion.net/u153

I have just discovered that the Blue Tango coffee pots have two different lids.
I said above that I have only ever seen them with square knob.
I was wrong. There was a round knob one too.
I have a third pot in the attic: I will check that out some time.

These are BOTH lids for Blue Tango coffee pots.
Both are hand-painted: messiness on left one is just reflection.
The round knob one is quite different from the ramekin round knob lid.

I found that the 5616 holds "2 and 3/4 oz " from info around 1969

In my photo above showing five lids the round knobbed mustard pot lids are included in the 871 number.

The square-knob lid on the Green Bamboo pot will be the 5611 "new lid for 871 and 5616". I'd then hazard a guess that the Green Bamboo pot is the 5616 "new mustard pot", 23.3.68. New being it is made differently.

Jeremy Ashford wrote:
The square-knob lid on the Green Bamboo pot will be the 5611 "new lid for 871 and 5616". I'd then hazard a guess that the Green Bamboo pot is the 5616 "new mustard pot", 23.3.68. New being it is made differently.

I have considered this before, but have never investigated enough to decide, but now you have done it for me and I will add these to the Four Digit Gallery thanks Jeremy.

Contrary to my earlier comments about ramekins having lids with round knobs only, I now see ramekins with square knobs. These will be a later shape as they have the screenprint pattern rather than the handpainted I have.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/pottery-glass/porcelain-pottery/crown-lynn/other/auction-1066511489.htm

The new lid should probably have a new shape number.

Kat & Co. wrote:7cmd x 4.5cmh with no lid

Same lid fits, it maybe that Jims plum one is not vitrified like above.

This is definitely the 5616 New Mustard Pot and the lid is 5611 and the records show that the new lid also goes with the 871.
I will update the Gallery as it is showing the Cook & Serve one.
It feels great to finally get this shape sorted.
Now we need to find the larger sugar in this style and it will be the knob on the lid that finds it and I see a reference above to one that Val has.  Can anyone point me to it please as it's number will be around this mustard pot.

Edits to add that looking at the Gallery .... the lid with the cut out for a spoon will be the shape 5617 and the lid without the spoon hole will be the 5611. So I will fix that up right away.

I will tidy this post later as I have contradicted myself in the stream of consciousness below.

Ev, I'm totally on board for the 5616 but have problems with your 5611: the lid you show for 5611 and 5617 is actually the same lid viewed from different angles, as stated by Kat in the quoted text. There is certainly a cutout so what the words "dual cutout" mean I don't know but I nevertheless accept that 5617 is as shown.

If the 5611 is a lid with a similar knob to the 5617 then the square knob lid for the 871 needs a new number, or it must be considered a revised version of the (round knob) lid for the 871.

Although the 871 and 5616 are similar in size at the lid gallery they are not identical. I forget which way it is but I know that the lids are interchangeable one way but not the other so one lid fits both but the other fits only one. I think I have mentioned that elsewhere but do not have it to hand. I would need to have them side by side to check.

Certainly in the photo the 5617 appears to fit the 871.

Although the 5611 definition appears to match it with both 5616 and 871 I have never seen matched pattern pot and lid with either the 5616-pot/871-lid or 871-pot/5617-type-lid combinations.

Do any drawings have answers for us, specifically a drawing of a 5611?
I will review those you posted recently.

Okay. Correction. I see the drawing does show the 5611 as you have allocated!

Accepting that, I am now good with your 5611!

However, I think the 5617 will be as the description says "dual cut out", ie two cutouts.

That leaves us with a lid yet to find, and a number to find for the square knob 871 lid unless we accept it also as being an 871. (Description 871 is for pot and lid.)

1623 and 1658 get a mention above but they belong to a large bowl, a sugar bowl.

Thanks for your comments Jeremy.  I do like having support and back up and also for someone to watch what I'm doing, as I am mostly winging it and feel rather alone and you pop up to chastise or pat me on the back  Thanks I appreciate having you around.

Yes I thought that it was the same lid, but as these are extremely hard to find, I didn't think it was a problem to use the photo with the cut-out not showing.  All good

Yes I agree that there will be a shape number for the other lid and I will try to remember to look for it in the records when I have time.

I may or may not get round to editing my previous post as it is messy but may not be a problem, however to address the matter of cutouts on 5611/5617 lids I think we need a bit more info yet.

We only have one lid picture so far. We need to identify the possibilities, and hopefully photograph them. Certainly these shapes are pretty rare but now we know to look out it should be easier.

We have a lid with a SINGLE cutout. Done.

Is there a lid with NO cutout?

Is there a lid with TWO cutouts? ie "dual cut out"
.

Sometimes I cannot rest when things need to be addressed.
Thanks again Jeremy as I found a drawing for the shape 5617.
Now tell me what it represents please?