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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

Post  Ev on Sun 27 Nov - 8:58

Some ideas are:
1. That they stand for the year made ...? Correct
2. They are the shape number ...? This has been disproved.
3. Perhaps the pattern number[patterns numbers were used for glazes too]? disproved
4. The clay type used maybe ....?
5. The firing requirements ....?
6. The number for a specific purchaser? disproved
There were heaps of numbers used and this is the place to try and get this one sorted!
There are many examples of these numbers already on the site and when I get a chance I will add them to this topic.
More ideas are most welcome Smile


Last edited by Ev on Wed 14 Dec - 10:12; edited 2 times in total
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty re Numbers on Vit rified & Super Vitrified

Post  Jonno on Sun 27 Nov - 9:18

Hi Ev,
Busy today, playing in Santa Parade but maybe this evening I will post details of the items I have in my collection about a dozen I think with a pic of each backstamp and a brief description of the item.
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Re: What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

Post  Ev on Sun 27 Nov - 11:49

There are heaps of examples in the Monogrammed Ware Topic -
but here is a couple that I found just now ....

An Ascot bread and butter plate that has the number 9 on it.
What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Ascot_10What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Ascot_11

A Tango ashtray that has the number 6 on it.
What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Tango10What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Tango_10
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Supervit#74

Post  Marl474 on Sun 27 Nov - 12:46

What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Dscf4131What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Dscf4132Blue stripe Avondale saucer 14.5cmWhat do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Dscf4133White saucer 13.9cm
I have lots more examples going up to number 88 will put them up later if you want them. I think that this has proved that the number is nothing to do with shape or pattern, Cheers marl
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Post  Ev on Sun 27 Nov - 13:04

My goodnes you are on to it Marl bounce

I agree with you about the number not relating to the shape or pattern ....
but what do you think it stands for?
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Re: What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

Post  Marl474 on Sun 27 Nov - 14:53

I must admit at this point I haven't got a clue!!!
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Post  Marl474 on Sun 27 Nov - 15:48

Hi Ev, I have just decided that I am leaning towards year of manufacture for the numbers. Your Blue tango ashtray is number 6 and according to Val Monk, Blue Tango was adapted for tourist hotels in 1966. There are not very many low numbers in the series, most of my ones range from 70 to 89 the year the factory closed. Just a suggestion, we may never know!cheers, marl
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Re: What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

Post  Marl474 on Sun 27 Nov - 16:10

http://sites.google.com/a/aotea.org/don-armitage/Home/great-barrier-island-history/air--sea-transport-tofrom-great-barrier-island/sea-transport/gulf-explorer-1983-4
I have 2 saucers in my collection with MV Gulf Explorer on them. One is supervit 82 and the other 83. The above website says the ship was ferrying between Auckland and great Barrier in 1983/84. It originally was set up as a floating casino presumably after it arrived in NZ in december 1980 and was refitted in 1981. I understand that this venture didn't do too well hence the ferry service. Anyway my point is that 82 and 83 correspond to the time the vessel was in service, so maybe another clue! cheers, marl. (I love a challenge!)
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty re What do the numbers on Vitro & SuperVitro mean

Post  Jonno on Sun 27 Nov - 16:45

OK been reading Val Monk and interesting that you should send through the two Gibson & Paterson examples. I have the same two numbers but on different shapes.
So.! Maybe we need to think of each set of numbers being specific to that client.
ie Govt. Stores Board,or Gib Pat, so that all the buyers and sales people had to discuss as far as shape was concerned was a simple number with details of any other decoration required being added .

Govt. Stores Board bought millions of pieces of vitrified porcelain each year , Monk,
Page 92
Here the ones that I can find at the moment except a 6 which is in my collection & is a side dish but eludes me, the little devil .
In order from the top they are:-
9 A Cereal Bowl 185 mm Dia
72 Sweet Plate 2 Red Line Decoration
75 Side Plate 165mm Dia
76 Oval Plate , Large 2 Red Lines Decoration
84 Small Oval Plate 225x160mm Teal Blue face
85 Dinner Plate 230mm Decorated Brown abstract design
88 Small Bowl 143 dia Honey glaze all ( Like Pioneer)
Look forward to comments.
What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! 9_cere10
What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! 9_cere11
What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! 72_swe10What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! 75_sid10
What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! 76_ova10
What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! 84_ova10
What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! 85_din10
What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! 88_sma10
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Re: What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

Post  Ev on Sun 27 Nov - 17:01

Marl I just merged your comments into the main thread so that they wouldn't get overlooked.

Now back to your year theory .....
Jonno's RNZAF plate has the number 87 on it and as it has the King George crown it should have been made pre 1953 ....?
Jonno's theory sounds feasible too .... more checking and research to do now!
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Re: What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

Post  Marl474 on Sun 27 Nov - 17:52

That is a puzzle, still working on proof of my theory. Not much else done around here today!
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Re: What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

Post  mrnarna on Sun 27 Nov - 22:42

I will join this thread when i get the chance as i have a truck load of sup/vit ware.
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Re: What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

Post  Ev on Mon 28 Nov - 18:48

I've just had a thought bom
.... the Decoration Advices from the Museum has the words vitrified and supervitrified included in the early notes. So I will go through them tomorrow to see if there are any clues there!
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Re: What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

Post  Ev on Tue 29 Nov - 7:41

Ok so there are heaps of entries with the word vitrifed or VIT ... no entries using super vitrified !
Not a clue regarding the vitrified numbers though : (
Here are a few examples:
GOVT. VIT 736 [Deco no] Rail Ferry
THC Vit 945 [the Deco no] (739) [the shape number]
GOVT. vit 965 RNZAF Burnished Gold Eagle [circa 1969 -70]
Vitrified 965 RNZAF [circa 1978]
Vitrified 144 Shipping Corp
Yes a few stood out so I had to add them Wink
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty re Numbers 0n Vitrified and Super Vitrified

Post  Jonno on Tue 29 Nov - 8:27

Hi Ev,
Thanks for those references from your Museum notes.

I have just searched Val Monk and find it interesting that the only reference to Super Vitrified seems to be the back stamp on page 156 which is different to the RNZAF bs. Not shown in the index and not mentioned in the copy on some 16 pages, just Vitrified.

Maybe it was a Crown Lynn promotional idea to label pieces Super Vitrified? after all once the right temp. is reached the body vitrifies that is it becomes glasslike and has no voids, specially selected bodies when vitrified are called porcelain as I understand it.
The specials department knew all about making industrial porcelain and had done from way back.

Still waiting for more info from RNZAF Museum and Te Papa Museum.


Last edited by Jonno on Tue 29 Nov - 8:30; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo errors corrected)
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Re: What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

Post  Ev on Tue 29 Nov - 9:00

Just to recap what we have discovered so far and this would be the numbers on the vitrified and super vitrified wares. I will list them and add to them when more turn up. What is interesting is the fact that there are very low numbers and then a huge gap to very high numbers.....?

2-SV
3-SV
6-V+SV
7-V+SV
8-V
9-SV
70-SV
71-SV
72-SV
73-SV
74-SV
75-SV
76-SV
77-SV
78-SV
79-SV
80-SV
81-SV
82-SV
83-SV
84-SV
85-SV
86-SV
87-SV
88-SV
89-SV
Edits:
Thank you Marl for all of those numbers!! If anyone has anymore please note them in this thread.
Only 2 so far that just have Vitrified on the backstamp? All of the others have super vitrified ....


Last edited by Ev on Tue 29 Nov - 12:51; edited 1 time in total
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Supervit#77

Post  Marl474 on Tue 29 Nov - 11:52

What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Dscf4137What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Dscf4138
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Re: What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

Post  Marl474 on Tue 29 Nov - 12:34

Hi Jonno, on the same page as the supervit backstamp which was in use from 1970 according to Monk, there is the much earlier script backstamp Crown Lynn Vitrified which was used from 1948 to 1955. If your RNZAF plate had been produced pre 1953 surely it would have had the earlier backstamp. just another thought, i am pretty much convinced that the numbers 70 to 89 are years of manufacture, not sure about the lower numbers though.cheers, Marl
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty re What do the Numbers on V & SV mean?

Post  Jonno on Wed 30 Nov - 9:26

The year of manufacture is unlikely to be the answer as CL closed down in May 1989
so that would mean that 87 & 88 would have been just before they closed? Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Re: What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

Post  Marl474 on Wed 30 Nov - 10:22

Yes but they could well have been producing up until just before closure.
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Vitrified RNZN plate

Post  Marl474 on Wed 30 Nov - 10:42

What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! 04510What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! 04710What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! 04612
I have been hunting for this photo in my files. Going by Monk this is a pre 1955 backstamp and the plate is a very early shape, I would have expected an Airforce plate of the same vintage to be a similar shape, with the early backstamp. Cheers, marl
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Re: What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

Post  Ev on Wed 30 Nov - 21:30

A thread on the Collectors Forum on Trademe is asking about this very same question ....
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=890520&topic=16
I'm watching it with bated breath .... and I checked Gail Henry and Val Monk re the Super Vitrified mark that was being discussed and they both said that it was used from the 1970's+ . Now why didn't I think of looking before :thud:
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Re: What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

Post  TonyK on Wed 30 Nov - 21:51

so what about the low numbers being 196- and the high 19-- ?

and manufacturing continued into 1989 with glost grading carrying on until almost the very end - the glost drading work rosters from the last fortnight are in a post somewhere here.
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Post  Ev on Thu 1 Dec - 7:06

Here is your post about the final days Tony ...
http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t562-crown-lynn-the-final-days?highlight=final
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What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! Empty Re: What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent? Answer - The Year made!

Post  Ev on Thu 1 Dec - 8:35

Ok I have an idea to try to prove that the numbers are the year of manufacture.
In the Summer issue of the 1978 Ceramics Crown Lynn magazine there is a photo and an article about the wares that will soon become the standard hospital range.
This is the pattern ..
What do the numbers on Vitrified and Supervitried ware represent?  Answer - The Year made! 73110

Marl has added three pieces from this range with the numbers 79, 86, and 87.
mrnarna has a mountain of this range so I hope he will check his numbers too, as so far it fits the time frame. I will use mrgoogle to see what I can find, as I only have one cup in this pattern.
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