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some unusual "Reflections" pieces from unouwanit? EmptySun 16 Jun - 8:10 by Ev


some unusual "Reflections" pieces from unouwanit?

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Post  Jeremy Ashford on Fri 15 Nov - 13:19

Ev made some comments on a recent Reflections purchase I made from unouwanit in the Cook & Serve can topic:
http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t1122p75-crown-lynn-cook-serve-coffee-cans#14636

Here is uno's photo:
some unusual "Reflections" pieces from unouwanit? Reflec11

Ev wrote:Very interesting to see a Reflections Coffee Can and the butter pat as I've never come across any before.  I have to hunt out the auction now to see what the backstamps are, because Reflections is usually on vitrified clay wares.  It won't be the 530 range I don't think.  Notice how the can has an inner base ring that should fit that saucer that has a smaller well than the usual can saucers.
Your possible Vision set is just dandy Jeremy Smile

Edits to add:
There is no info on the auction re the backstamps.  While searching I came across a few butter pats and this one looks smaller as it only fits the pattern.  Is it likely to be one of those egg cup saucers?  
Unouwanit wrote to me:

"The coffee can is only 6cm in height and about 7.3cm across from rim to rim.

"Unusual to see this shape in reflections usually see it with a tulip. But it came to me together and colour is spot on with the range.

"No transfer on the cup but the cup is imprinted New Zealand on the base."

This is not a Cook & Serve set.

The auction was: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=659234732

Any further questions will have to be addressed to unouwanit as I will not be seeing this until next week.
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Post  Ev on Fri 15 Nov - 13:28

Thanks for making a new topic for this set Jeremy. I would really like to know if the can is vitrified. Uno would know. I found an entry in the records that sound like a vitrfied can.
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Post  Jeremy Ashford on Fri 15 Nov - 23:50

Unouwanit has provided some answers for Ev:
unouwanit wrote:Backstamps are: Crown Lynn New Zealand Vitrified Ware  Reflections Pat no 842 on all but the cup, which is simply imprinted with New Zealand.  The coffee can had a simple round handle which differs from some of the coffee cans which are a little shaped.  (if that makes sense) ?

Editing to add this is the smaller butter pat than the commonly seen.  I've only found this size in the reflections thus far and one in Blue to match the blue saphhire range.

Measures 8cm in diam
Ev, the backstamps don't tell you whether THE CAN is vitrified.
If it does not say so chances are it isn't???
I'll save my opinion until I have it in hand.

Ducks Nuts has the same can and saucer:
Ducks Nuts wrote:Yes that is the same as the reflections I have.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Sat 16 Nov - 0:02; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : adding further quote, stuff)
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Post  Ev on Sat 16 Nov - 6:36

The feel of the cup would tell me if it is vitrified ........ it feels like stone rather than porous light weight earthenware. The Cook & Serve ware has a similar feeling.
I've only seen those little tiny plates in an auction on ebay that went with matching eggcups. I haven't found anything in the records regarding these, but I have to know what to look for to find things.
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Post  unouwanit on Sat 16 Nov - 8:29

I'm going to throw a spanner in the works and suggest that the can is not Vitirified.

I'm by no means an expert, but it just doesn't look and feel heavy enough.

Jury is out though I'll get this wrapped up nice and safely and on it's way to you next week Jeremy and you can give your expertise on it.

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Post  Ev on Sat 16 Nov - 9:54

Ok there may be another pattern that this can would go with.  Heh I hadn't thought of that, but there is a vitrified four digit coffee can, not in those words exactly but that is how I read it.  Is the little dish vitrified?


Last edited by Ev on Sun 26 Oct - 9:40; edited 1 time in total
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Post  unouwanit on Sat 16 Nov - 14:17

Yes the dish is vitrified

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some unusual "Reflections" pieces from unouwanit? Empty Reflections Duo: neither Arthur, nor Martha

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Thu 21 Nov - 15:42

The Reflections set has arrived. Thanks Uno.

I'm showing a lot of pics here comparing various cans and saucers.
As Ev predicted the Reflections can is NOT of the 530 type.
Nor is it a Cook & Serve can, as we know them.
some unusual "Reflections" pieces from unouwanit? 3canss10
This pic shows 3 cans and saucers, left to right:
531 Arthur and Martha on Colour Glaze saucer: Reflections: Cook & Serve c/s
some unusual "Reflections" pieces from unouwanit? 3cans310
Here they are upside down to show the markings.
It doesn't show up but the Reflections can has "NEW ZEALAND" IMPRESSED!
some unusual "Reflections" pieces from unouwanit? 3sauce10
Saucers top to bottom: cook&serve, Reflections: A&M
some unusual "Reflections" pieces from unouwanit? 3cans10
3 cans showing relative height.
The reflections is the same height as cook&serve. The 531 is significantly higher, 3mm.

To show relative width would take 3 pics. So words will have to suffice:
The Reflections is marginally wider than cook&serve. The 531 is noticeably wider, 3mm.

Whilst the Reflections saucer is markedly fatter and heavier than the other two,
the Reflections can is the same weight of material as the cook&serve, both thinner than the 531.
The base ring however is a match for the 531, rather than the cook&serve.

It is my opinion, from the thickness (thinness) of the Reflection can's sides, and the sparkle in the material exposed in the base ring that the Reflections can is the same material as the cook&serve can,
ie vitrified china.

This reflections can is a new shape.

It is strange, but not unique that the can obscures the pattern of the saucer.
When in use the patterns on plates are obscured. At least when you lift the can you get to see it.

Whatever, I'm a happy chap. Thanks again.
(And thanks for the other too, great yellow, I have two now in that colour.)


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Thu 21 Nov - 15:44; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typos)
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Post  Ev on Thu 21 Nov - 15:51

Brilliant informative post thanks Jeremy.
I will work on those shape numbers when possible.
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Post  unouwanit on Thu 21 Nov - 18:45

Great breakdown there Jeremy, just when you think you've seen them all, out comes a newbie!

Pleased to know they've gone to a good home.

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some unusual "Reflections" pieces from unouwanit? Empty blah blah blah

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Thu 21 Nov - 22:51

Thanks Uno. (Sorry, that title just above is not intended for you.)

Here's some more useless information:

Using the definition for a coffee can of "a cup taking the shape of a can"
(which seems a reasonable definition to me)
I see there are two other coffee cans in the cup gallery (3000-3650): 3038 and 3078.
I would probably call 3043 a mug.

The four can types I've discussed here and in the Cook & Serve topic all share a handle shape,
although it appears to be slightly beefed up in those that aren't vitrified.
That handle also appears to be shared by 3066, which is not a can as it flairs at the rim,
and possibly 3056, which is not a can at all.

It's a very elegant handle on a very utilitarian form.

All these then will be derivative of the Rorstrand coffee can or the 1950s,
which I believe was probably designed by Herta Bengtsson (1917-1998),
but may have been the work of Marianne Westman whose patterns decorated many of the cans.
I think I'll keep an eye out to see if it was used by potteries in other countries.

(I have just sent an email to someone in Sweden seeking further info on the Rorstrand cans.)

I need to stop this!
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Post  Ev on Sun 16 Feb - 7:48

This auction on ebay makes me wonder if the little Reflections dish is one of those egg cup plates .....

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VINTAGE-CROWN-LYNN-GALAXY-VITRIFIED-PORCELAIN-EGG-CUP-AND-UNDERPLATE-ESTATE-/151232725285?ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:AU:1120

The one in the auction is 8cm. I've seen these before, but never seen the measurement.
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some unusual "Reflections" pieces from unouwanit? Empty And another "underplate"

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Sun 16 Feb - 9:21

I have no reason to disagree with that description. Looks a good fit.

As I have come to learn about dating supervit I see it is 1969, same year on the plate and saucer. The can is impressed New Zealand. Marks as photographed above.

I also have this 8cm  "egg cup underplate" in Tango Blue (not Blue Tango!).
It is dated 1974. I'm surprised to see that the base stamp is green.
I bought it many years ago thinking it a butter dish. Bought cheap and stored.
I was buying blue at the time to match my teapot.
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Post  Ev on Sun 16 Feb - 9:31

Brilliant thanks Jeremy, now I have to find it in the records and I wonder what Crown Lynn called the little darlings ....
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some unusual "Reflections" pieces from unouwanit? Empty eggcup saucer = airline butter pat?

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Sun 16 Mar - 21:35

Is it the 880 Small Butter Pat [Teal]?

I think the same shape may have doubled as a hotel eggcup saucer and an airline butter pat.

I have seen the Air New Zealand ones on trademe and I think the size was a match for the eggcup saucers, rather than the standard butter pat.

I couldn't find any helpful four digit numbers.
Maybe this was one like the 872 (Cook & Serve can) where production continued into the 1970s at least with the three digit number being retained.
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Post  Ev on Mon 17 Mar - 7:26

You are right Jeremy, as my Air NZ dish is 8cms across which is a lot smaller than the usual earthenware butter pats.
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Post  Jeremy Ashford on Mon 17 Mar - 9:10

Thanks Ev.

So far we have:
Vitrified coffee can = 3618 "Altered Base 782 and replaces same"
Butter pat/eggcup plate = 880 "Small Butter Pat [Teal]"
I presume the 880 is vitrified too, as all Reflections appears to be.

Just saucer and plate numbers to go.
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Post  Ev on Mon 17 Mar - 9:26

Yes all of the Air Nz ware is vitrified.
I've loaded all of the plate descriptions, though they don't really help when it comes to flatware. The vitrified plates have a second number of 6.
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