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Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. EmptySun 21 Apr - 14:36 by Ev


Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets.

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Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. Empty Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets.

Post  Maryr on Fri 16 May - 15:34

Most of my vitrified large ashets have cryptic numbers and letters stamped into them - I have absolutely no idea what they mean, but thought they should be placed on record. Perhaps they are individual to a particular customer?
Any comments happily received.  All these plates are almost exactly the same shape; some are photographed from slightly different angles.

For starters:  these first plates are all shape 1631 - my favourite large ashet shape, they are so crisply and professionally made.
All these imprints are separate from the shape number, and each number/letter is applied separately. Someone did a lot of stamping!  When there is a backstamp, I have included it as well. I have not included the shape numbers as that would involve so much repetition.

Forgive me if this topic has been raised elsewhere; if so I can't find it.  I have more pics of these marks which I can easily add if anyone is interested.
Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. X_cl_o10
This fernleaf pattern has the following imprint:
Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. X_cl_o11
And this backstamp
Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. X_cl_o17

And another.. Riviera pattern
Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. X_cl_o12
Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. X_cl_o14
Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. X_cl_o13
And another... no backstamp
Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. X_cl_o15
Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. X_cl_o16

And yet another... Reflections
Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. X_cl_o18
Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. X_cl_o19
Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. X_cl_o20
Maryr
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Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. Empty Is it only on Vitrified?

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Fri 16 May - 17:08

As you say, these ashets are vitrified shapes. Strange impressed marks of the single-letter-single-number type can be found on plain-coloured Cook & Serve (Viking?) cans too, also vitrified.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eds 19/5/14 I have a Reflections demi with what appears to be 277 impressed.
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Can anyone produce a piece of earthenware with similar markings?

---------------------
Eds 19/5/14 again.
Oh, I see I have one myself! Ca1969 Fleurette tulip stamped "5" .

http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t3962p15-researching-the-new-zealand-mark-that-is-impressed-into-the-base-clay-on-crown-lynn#16972


There is a lovely crisp "1" impressed in mumof1's Mardi Gras bisque:

http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t3278-my-bisque-mardi-gras-401-have-arrived#10470

Both these items I think are late 50s, early 60s.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Fri 23 May - 21:12; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Add link)
Jeremy Ashford
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Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. Empty alphanumeric coding on vitrified cups

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Tue 21 Nov - 15:58

It looks like what I have written below may only apply to CUPS because now that I review the above I see some strange alphanumeric combinations of different lengths.

---------
Dating pieces with crown and star backstamps has always been a bit of a gamble. I understand that this mark was used from 1955 but the date at which its use ceased is not known. On vitrified ware this mark was replaced with a crown and number mark, with the single digit indicating the last digit of its year, for example 7 for 1967. The earliest year mark I have found is 5 for 1965, but I suspect that on some special lines the crown and star may have been retained longer.

The practice of numbering backstamps began with wares made for Gibsons and Patterson (in about 1962), I believe the reason was for stock control in use in commercial kitchen and dining rooms. Crown Lynn did attempt other dating systems before those now well-known backstamps.

For a time they attempted different systems for dating, using alphanumeric impressed stamps. I have only now started to get a handle on these. I believe the first stamp in an indication of year and second stamp is an indication of year.

Using that system some new cups (29, that's 2 and 9 rather than twentynine) would date from February (2) 1959 (9). Where letters for part of the mark it is a bit more tricky. The "J" on my Erg cup could conceivably be January or June or July, but I think more likely November, where using a simple number-letter substitution (A=1, B=2 ... J=10 ...) November--the tenth month--is J.

(The above method of coding was used on NZ-made batteries back in the 1980s.)

One of my other battery monogram cups poses a problem as the possibly incomplete and anyways difficult to read mark could be I0, or 10, or CI or C1 (etc) but if I select one interpretation to match my scheme above it would be C1 for March 1961.

Ongoing. I'll look at plain coffee cans again some time.
Jeremy Ashford
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Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. Empty Re: Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets.

Post  Ev on Tue 21 Nov - 19:45

I thought I kept a copy of the dating of month and year by Crown Lynn, but can only find a reference and it went like this....
One was 8/71 which would represent August 1971.
Just to show what it looked like Jeremy !!!!

Ev
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Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. Empty Re: Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets.

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Tue 21 Nov - 20:17

I saw a couple or few 4619s at Hikurangi last week and photographed marks like that, backstamp not impressed. There were three and all either (because the marks are not that clear) 6/71 or 8/71: coincidence or what?

I'll need to use computer to add pics but it is occupied atm.

As for the impressed marks, I considered the possiblity of a "codecracker" type code with a keywork like Elizabeth Lissaman's year marks but thought that too complex. A through L for the twelve months is much more sensible.

The ones on the ashets are much trickier.
Jeremy Ashford
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Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. Empty Re: Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets.

Post  Maryr on Thu 23 Nov - 7:27

Interesting thoughts Jeremy. I hope that there is a written reference buried in those records somewhere...
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Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. Empty Re: Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets.

Post  Ev on Tue 18 Dec - 7:39

Bumping this topic for further investigation.
Ev
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Post  Maryr on Tue 18 Dec - 8:00

Good luck Ev. I was staring at those numbers in the weekend and going hmmmm. Have we asked young Tom Clark? Or Bruce?
Maryr
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Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. Empty Re: Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets.

Post  Ev on Tue 18 Dec - 8:06

Mon found some on her fabulous coffee can and so we are off to discover more Smile
No I haven't bothered either of those wonderful people for info on this.  I feel like such a bother hounding them with questions.

I have noted that all of my 1631 ovals have numbers and letters so I am delving into them today.
Ev
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Post  Ev on Tue 18 Dec - 18:02

Sorry I'm late but Mike said this morning "I hope you get time to get the cobwebs"  "What cobwebs"  I innocently said .... well there were plenty, but here I am with a list of large Ovals and their findings.  I still need to measure these and find the ones we are missing in the Galleries

Red Tango G&P 1968 B10J
Reflections C&S M
Riviera 1966 1631 Y11
Shasta Daisy 765/10V X
Barbaras 1980's no size, nothing
Green Bamboo C&S 765/10V B81
Green Bamboo 1631 B4
Shasta Daisy 765/10V R
Reflections 1631 I and something maybe 7 handwritten
Trentham 1969 1631 P6
Plain White 1975 1631 2
Plain White 1955 - 64 stamp ... no size, nothing
A Ballins 1970 1631 Y2
Dark Brown C&S 765/10 C31
d362 no size nothing and no time to find name, but it has one
Dark Brown C&S 765/10 C31
D644 Gibpat no size nothing and no time to find name, but it has one
Brown matches Reflections C&S 1631 Y5
2 Red Lines 765/10 1
2 Red Lines 1966 765/10 1
The Gourmet 1955+ 845
Epsom 1978 no size or number
d644 Gybpat no size no number
Trentham 1977 1631 H - 3 at other end
Trentham 1969 1631 I - Y 10 at other end
Ellerslie 1979 no size, no number
Epsom 1982 no size or number

What does this all mean?  
I have no idea at this stage, but we can work from here  santa

Photos of Trentham 1977 -3

Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. _2018111

Trentham 1969 - Y10

Those mysterious numbers and letters on ashets. _2018112
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