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Clever Jim's Ambrico US Navy mug and bowl Empty Clever Jim's Ambrico US Navy mug and bowl

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Fri 10 Jul - 20:40

Previous titles:
Is this an NZR-type beaker? No it's an Ambrico US Navy mug!
Is this a CL/Ambrico beaker?

Clever Jim's Ambrico US Navy mug and bowl Rly310
beaker or cup without handle

I posted this image a while back with my Refreshment Rooms cup:
http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t5052-n-z-rly-refreshment-rooms-grindley-cup-cl-saucer#18738

Not sure what it was at the time but I thought it may be Crown Lynn.
As I'm travelling I do not have the measurements on me but suffice to say it is much bigger than the 700 cups and insulator cups.

As I browsed through Auckland Museum's Crown Lynn collection I noticed four similar objects, three without markings variously described as cup or mug (K3910, K5045, K6357) and one described as a beaker and marked "NZR" (K3905). All appear to be the same shape and descriptions seem to correspond.

http://www.aucklandmuseum.com/collections-research/collections/search?pht=True&k=crown+lynn+k3905
"white beaker with NZR logo"

http://www.aucklandmuseum.com/collections-research/collections/search?pht=True&k=crown+lynn+k3910
"heavy buff mug"

http://www.aucklandmuseum.com/collections-research/collections/search?pht=True&k=crown+lynn+k5045
"cup, putty colour, no handles, heavy"

http://www.aucklandmuseum.com/collections-research/collections/search?pht=True&k=crown+lynn+k6357
"mug"

I feel pretty confident now that the beaker is Crown Lynn. The shape looks the same and the variety of colour descriptions allow room my dirty white one.

It would be very helpful if anyone else has one of these, particularly an NZR one, if they could provide some measurements for comparison.
I will add measurements for mine when I get home at the end of the month.
I'll also add some more images.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Tue 22 Nov - 15:50; edited 2 times in total
Jeremy Ashford
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Post  Ev on Sat 11 Jul - 6:35

Val has one of those big early thick heavy cups with the first handle on it, you should check it out against that one Jeremy.  It is probably in her latest book with measurements. It's a shame there are no measurements on the Auckland Museum collection.  Maybe that will happen one day. You have an instinctive knack for this sort of thing Jeremy, so you are most likely correct.
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Post  Jeremy Ashford on Sat 11 Jul - 7:33

Ev,

Jim and Val both have the early big cups but the profile is different from these,
not just my one. I neglected to measure Jim's when I measured his vit mugs so it will be good to get them written down on the forum, along with the measurements for this.

I will be having them around when I get home so will see if I can get one or other to bring one along, if nothing else to get an idea of scale. My main concern is the finish of the glaze on mine which has a brushed look to it.

I will trust Val's eye for Crown Lynn.

In the meantime here's Jim's big cup.
Clever Jim's Ambrico US Navy mug and bowl Earthe10

From here:
http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t4828-vitrified-carlton-700-3638-and-insulator-cups#17676

And here's his range of vit cups for size comparison again.
Clever Jim's Ambrico US Navy mug and bowl 700s10

From the Museum's accompanying notes we ARE looking in the ballpark of the BIG one.

From memory, I think it has a coved foot, and the profile has a sweeter curve than ALL the beaker shapes (Museum and mine), which are pretty much straight-sided.


Last edited by Jeremy Ashford on Sat 11 Jul - 9:02; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Maryr on Sat 11 Jul - 8:54

It will be good to see this mug thingie Jeremy. The American army also had some U.S manufactured beakers and bowls in NZ. I have a bowl and handle less beaker. Both are marked with US makers. I will do my best to remember to bring them round to compare.
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Post  Jeremy Ashford on Sat 11 Jul - 9:03

Thanks Val,

I was playing with my post when you replied and have added a bit more, above.
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Clever Jim's Ambrico US Navy mug and bowl Empty American vs New Zealand Service Ware

Post  Jeremy Ashford on Tue 15 Dec - 17:56

Val's surprising and wonderful mini-collection of vitrified service ware is taking a summer holiday at my place so I'm taking the opportunity to photograph it, measure it and ponder it.

There is a lot to take in and a bit more research to do so I'm posting this composite picture as a bit of a teaser.
Clever Jim's Ambrico US Navy mug and bowl Beaker10
The first panel shows comparison of the beaker above and an Ambrico big cup.
Second panel compares American and Ambrico big cups.
Third panel compares American beaker and my beaker.

I am now pretty sure my dirty-white vitrified beaker will turn out to be one of the type made for the US services in the Pacific.
I haven't yet found dimensions for the straw colour handleless NZR mugs. I don't see dimensions on the Auckland Museum search page:
K3905
http://www.aucklandmuseum.com/collections-research/collections/record/am_humanhistory-object-14821?k=crown%20lynn%20nzr&ordinal=2
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Post  Jeremy Ashford on Mon 11 Jan - 9:50

Handleless mugs for the American navy.
Clever Jim's Ambrico US Navy mug and bowl Nohand10

The two articles from Ceramics magazine show the handleless mug, in what appears to be the blue glaze (left) and clear (right). This confirms my own one, and those at Auckland Museum as also being Navy mugs.

From the date in the second caption it also looks as though Tom Clark succeeded in creating a near white vitrified body well in advance of his 1948 success with earthenware. I should point out though that the 1940 date published in Ceramics must be wrong, as USA only joined in on WWII the day after the bombing of Pearl Harbour on December 7th 1941.

---------
It appears to me that one of the Auckland Museum examples I cited as the same shape likely isn't.

I have just compared the photo of Auckland Museum's handleless NZR cup with one from Paekakariki Railway Museum and think it is much smaller than the others.
http://stationmuseum.co.nz/Interest_1.htm

It is close in size to the Maddock cup at right of pic, which the 700 cups approximate but even smaller so I'm thinking it may even be the same cup body as one of gloworm's straw cups.
Auckland Museum also has a plain straw cup with handle:
http://www.aucklandmuseum.com/collections-research/collections/record/am_humanhistory-object-7866?

So too do I after Val's garage sale, not posted it yet. gloworm's cups:
http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t6629-ambrico-e-w-cups-and-saucers-like-smaller-railway-cups#26225

28/4/16
Handleless cups shape/size comparison in this topic:
http://www.newzealandpottery.net/t7473-yet-another-ambrico-handless-cup

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Post  Jeremy Ashford on Tue 22 Nov - 16:21

Clever Jim, lucky Jim

At our collectors group meeting on the 10th at Val's Jim produced this piece and asked what it was. He suspected it was something important. As I know what it is I told him that it is an Ambrico handle-less cup made for the US armed forces in the Pacific during WWII. So far, other than the ones at Auckland Museum I had only seen my own one, the initial subject of this topic.

Jim's is a slightly different colour from mine and deliciously uglier with a big dribble and marks like the chip/scrape seen in the photos.
Clever Jim's Ambrico US Navy mug and bowl Navy110Clever Jim's Ambrico US Navy mug and bowl Navy210

And Jim paid just $2 at Hospice as shown compared to my $3 at Te Atatu a couple years back.

Today Jim dropped by with more goodies. I swore when I saw this. A bowl to go with his cup. The going price for the multi-coloured version (what I have) is over $100. Ev has one in blue-green glaze like that in the Ceramics magazine photo in the post immediately above. Jim's is the only example I have seen in clear-glaze. It cost him another $2. The price sticker indicates that it was put on the shelf shortly after the cup, the day of our meeting at Val's in fact.
Clever Jim's Ambrico US Navy mug and bowl Navy112
Clever Jim's Ambrico US Navy mug and bowl Navy211

This has the odd manufacturing fault but is otherwise perfect.
Clever Jim's Ambrico US Navy mug and bowl Navy310

The third bowl photo shows Jim's bowl at left with Val's American made "Joaquin" brand bowl. The American bowl is slightly lighter weight and has a coved foot like the officer cups. It, or one like it, would have served as the specification for Ambrico.
.
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Post  Ev on Tue 22 Nov - 18:46

Stop it you guys as I happily paid $100 for my USA Army bowl ..... Evil or Very Mad
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Post  Kat & Co. on Tue 22 Nov - 20:50

:O2laugh: :3wisesmilies:
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Post  Jeremy Ashford on Tue 22 Nov - 21:45

Ev wrote:Stop it you guys as I happily paid $100 for my USA Army bowl ..... Evil or Very Mad

Likewise Ev. Why do you think I swore!

And I don't even know where mine is atm.
Haven't seen it for at least a year. Ouch.
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